Feedback Box:

The Army of God Answers Its Critics

Answers by the Secretary General of the Army of God (AOG)

(That's me, Uncle Ed.. Or Dave Leach, my pen name.)

Introducing the Answer Man

I had no idea. Don Spitz. General of the Army of God. Gives all the orders for folks like Paul Hill, Shelley Shannon, Eric Rudolph, and Clayton Waagner. I'd known Don for years, but I never suspected. Just goes to show what you can learn on The News. There it was on 20/20. (November 28, 2001 AD.)

Well, when Don told me he was too overwhelmed by the hundreds of emails he got after that eye opening story about him, and was just deleting them, I volunteered to answer his email on behalf of our mutual interests. He sent the rest to me.

Well, if I am answering the General's mail, doesn't that make me a Secretary General? I looked it up in the dictionary, and while it doesn't specifically cover a General who receives his commission from a news reporter, it comes pretty close.

So there you have it. May I introduce myself (hold your applause until I can get this out) as Uncle Ed., Secretary General of the Army of God.

Which brought this accolade from Steve Stroh of Des Moines: "Dave Leach is the most underrated writer I know of! Anyone who can rationalize himself into the Secretary General of the Army of God has GOT to have a small following!"

(For a serious, well mostly serious, analysis of the 20/20 story, and of just what is this "Army of God", see www.panews.org/AOG/2020.htm)

Actually I am able to answer only the first hundred or so of the approximately 300 Don sent me. After I had received that many, and had answered about a hundred and backed it up, and had set aside the next 200 but had not backed them up, about the 300th email contained a virus which announced to me, "You think you are God, but you are a clump of shit" -- sorry ladies, but that's what it said. That message was pretty much the sentiment of most of the email, by the way. Anyway, after that message was given, nothing could be salvaged from my hard drive. Including those next 200 unanswered emails. So if you are still waiting for a response, send again. Please, no viruses.

How This Is Organized

As you might imagine, the emails repeat many of the same points. I considered separating all the material by subject and creating a long article for each subject, composed of responses on that subject. But (1) it would create an endless editing task which would begin again with each new email; (2) Lost would be the verbatim letters of AOG critics, which I think is valuable in understanding how Americans reason; (3) most letters raise several subjects, and even the subjects themselves overlap.

And yet the responses need to be organized in some way that readers with a particular question can easily find all that pertains to just that question.

The solution: a "searchable database", a single article with each mention of a subject tagged with a keyword which can take the searcher quickly from one mention to the next. This works well even for a print version, by making the keywords big and bold.

Here are the subjects we have so far, and their search keywords: (Include the Asterisk in your search to limit results to beginnings of articles)

"Thou Shalt Not Kill*"

Do Not Judge*" "Stop playing God" "God will take care of sinners; we don't have to do anything about them"

"Turn the Other Cheek*"

"He that Takes the Sword*"

"You are hurting your own cause" or "You are bringing shame upon the name of Jesus" or "your Strategy* cannot succeed"

"What Bible Verses* condemn abortion?"

"I'm considering getting an abortion" (Search word: "Bow2bort*")

"I'm undecided about abortion" or "Why are you such a fanatic over abortion?" "Don't be so Serious*"

"It's no use trying to have a Discussion* with you"

"Those terrible Pictures*"

"Constitution Requires Choice" "Christians, obey The Law*"

"Action Is Hate* when it is against an abortionist" "Why do you hate abortionists?"

"Adoption*, not Murder"

"Abortion is a Choice" "God gave us Choice" "ChoiceRules*"

"Vengeance is God's" "Eye for an Eye*" "Two wrongs don't make a right"

"Jesus was Nonviolent*"

"What about Rape*, incest, and disability?"

"What about unloved children, or children who will face a life of Poverty*?"

"Don't blame abortionists! Blame* the mother! Blame the parents!"

"At least aborted babies go straight to Heaven" "It's better to be aborted than Born*"

For all types of threats: search "Threat*"

It is interesting to search "Hell", (without an asterisk), to see how many times Don and I are told that's where we will go.

How Letter Writers are Treated

The letters received from Don Spitz were sent a text file of all my first round of answers, and all their letters, with this cover letter:

"Don Spitz forwarded your note to me so that I might answer on his behalf. I am sending you this copy of my response, before posting it on the web, to give you the opportunity, should you be so moved, to respond before I post the complete article, so that I can include your response with the original posting of my answer. (Any answers I receive later, I will try to still add to the article, but it may take some time before I get it done.)

"I do not respond specifically to each point of each letter, because I have found several categories common to many letters. So at the top of each letter I type category headings, including search words identified with an "*", (Use the "*" when you search), with which you can search the complete letter file to read the responses I have given to that point. The complete letter file is located at www.panews.org/AOG/Letters.htm.

"My reason for taking the time to answer is my assumption that at least part of your motive for writing is to test the strength of your own ideas, by seeing what response Don, or someone helping him, might give. If you had absolutely no openness to what we might answer, I doubt if you would have written. Only a precious few will write, of the many who only mutter to themselves. That is why I consider your letter precious.

"There is no questioning your sincerity. Believing as you do, you are obeying God to write; specifically, you are obeying Ezekiel 3:18-20. In turn, I am obeying the same passage by responding to you. The world calls this "arguing", and the world doesn't like it; well, most people like to mutter to themselves, but most will not expose their ideas in a forum where the guy they are condemning has a chance to respond. But 1 Corinthians 14 and Hebrews 10:23-25 describe this very process as "exhorting one another", and portrays it as the essence of a proper church service. (As opposed to a modern "sermon" where there is no interaction, but that is another subject.) 2 Corinthians 13:11 and a few other places speak of "being of one mind" as a goal within our reach. It seems pretty clear that as Christians return to the Biblical Fellowship pattern of robust discussion, the natural consequence will be ever increasing unity of understanding.

"I pray you will join the discussion with Don and me in this spirit.

"Since criticisms of Don appear to consist of many repetitions of only a few popular points, I have organized these points into categories. I have made a separate file for each category, and posted my answer in each category at the beginning of the article, followed by all the emails which made that point. After reading my answer, if you have any further thoughts to offer, I hope you will send them to me.

"My answers are simple, in proportion to the simplicity of most of the emails. I do not assume a simplistic email proves the writer is simplistic; another reason for simplicity in an initial email is the uncertainty whether it will be taken seriously. You hate to waste serious thinking on a reader who will not consider what you say seriously, anyway. So again, I look forward to even more thoughtful responses when you write again."

We begin with a general answer to the objection made to the use of force to stop abortion, "Thou Shalt Not Kill".

"Thou Shalt Not Kill*"

Uncle Ed.'s General Answer, followed by emails raising the point that shooting abortionists violates the commandment "Thou Shalt Not Kill."

The short answer:

The Hebrew word for "kill" {raw-tsakh'} has the same wide range of meaning as the English word. It means everything from premeditated murder, to accidental death, to the execution of a murderer by a relative of the victim (the procedure instituted by God in Numbers 35:12.) The job of the interpreter is to determine which of the multiple-choice definitions of "kill" God meant.

Now you can either complain that words have more than one meaning, which makes it difficult enough for humans to interpret and impossible for computers, or you can stop thinking like a computer and appreciate the "richness" of language, and read the context of "thou shalt not kill" to see how God interprets the verse. God surrounds "thou shalt not kill" (Exodus 20:13) with dozens of laws commanding capital punishment. So if God elsewhere insists we execute the guilty, He must not have meant, by "thou shalt not kill", that we must NEVER use lethal force to stop the guilty. He must have meant "thou shalt not kill the innocent", which is how the word is most often used.

More details:

I have heard abortionists quote this commandment on TV. I guess they think it doesn't apply to them. They can kill all day long and apply the commandment only to those who would stop their killing spree!

Abortionists and their supporters quote "thou shalt not kill" so often, that I have to ask if you learned the quote from them, or if you actually read it for yourself by actually opening up the Bible and reading it in Exodus 20:13?

Because if you read it for yourself, while reading through the Bible, then you must have read other verses around it commanding capital punishment, such as Exodus 19:12, for touching Mount Sinai; 21:12, for manslaughter; 21:15, for assaulting one's parents; 21:16, for enslaving anyone (in the Bible people could enslave themselves by going into debt and then having to work for someone else to pay it off, a bit like today; but capturing an innocent person was a capital offense); 21:17, for treating parents with contempt (King James translates "cursing"); 21:29 for wanton neglect to eliminate a hazard under one's control, that causes the death of another; 22:19, for having sex with animals; 31:14, for violating the Sabbath.

Well, I could go on, and cover passages that expressly command the court to have no pity, like Deuteronomy 13, for preaching false religions; or Deuteronomy 19:11-13 for premeditated murder. But let's take note of Exodus 31:14. That's the kicker, if you really think executing a guilty man violates "Thou Shalt Not Kill". Because then you would have to interpret Exodus 31:14 as enforcing the "keep the Sabbath" commandment by violating the "Thou Shalt Not Kill" commandment!

You say "But all those verses are in the Old Testament." Did you know Exodus 20:13 is in the Old Testament, too?

I don't want to be sarcastic with someone who is sincere but just hasn't noticed these things or had them pointed out. I just want to challenge you to refine your interpretation of the Ten Commandments so that it can be consistent with the rest of God's Word.

Have you noticed how often prolifers use the word "innocent" with "babies", to distinguish them from abortionists who obviously lack the same degree of innocence?

Do you see the moral distinction between killing the innocent, versus killing the guilty? No one stumbles over the distinction when our nation talks about terrorists in Afghanistan. Obviously our purpose over there is to kill people; specifically the guilty terrorists, the ones responsible for ramming our jets into our skyscrapers. Yet even in war, we remain appalled at any thought of deliberately killing "innocent" civilians; that is, "innocent", in the sense they have done nothing to justify our hurting them in any way.

The existence of American soldiers doesn't keep you from sleeping at night, does it? Even though their SOLE PURPOSE is to kill people? As long as they restrain their mission to self defense, killing only those guilty of trying to kill us, that doesn't seem a great world evil to you, does it? How about police, who carry guns whose SOLE function is to injure and kill people? If that doesn't seem to you a great evil in the world, then it can only be because you accept my distinction between killing the innocent, and killing the guilty.

In the case of abortion, how can there be any human being more INNOCENT than an unborn baby? Or anyone more GUILTY than a man whose career consists of murdering 20,000 or more unborn babies for the sake of millions of dollars and powerful political influence?

Our next decision to settle is whether to accept God's evaluation of who is guilty and who is innocent, as more relevant than the personal opinion of you, or me, or abortionists, or of those who have killed abortionists. Is abortion the murder of an innocent baby? Or isn't it? And if it is, does God say we should do anything about it?

But it is not necessary to decide what action to take, to at least answer Mother Theresa's question: "If we can't tell a mother not to kill her very own baby, how can we tell anyone not to kill anything?" Or, if it is justified to stop a foreign enemy by lethal force for killing a relatively paltry few thousand Americans, what is justified to stop domestic terrorists from slaying 1.5 MILLION AMERICANS PER YEAR?!

Thou Shalt Not Kill*

Turn the Other Cheek*

Date: Sat, 01 Dec 2001

From: "David Wright" <mrpowderfinger@hotmail.com

To: PraiseJesus@ArmyofGod.com

On your web page you may like to mention that the commandment reads:"Thou shalt not kill." There is no clause that grants exception in the commandment. It does not read "Thou shalt not kill unless..." or "Thou shalt not kill except...." So when you glorify Clayton Waagner and other murderers the way you do on your web page, I have to ask myself if this man really is a Christian in his heart or does he just enjoy the feeling of being a part of a group? Is he another salesman carrying a cross on one shoulder and a brief case in the the other hand? Regardless of what he believes he is, he apparently has forgotten that as wrong as abortion may or may not be in gods eyes (and we only speculate on that as human beings) we know that for us to take a life, even in self defense goes against the teachings of Jesus. We may lay our own lives down for another but Jesus commands that we do not aid in the killing of another mrpowderfingerddw

Uncle Ed. Sez:

Dear David,

(Enclose general answer on 6th commandment, prolife Scriptures, and general introduction)

You say we can only speculate on how wrong abortion may be in God's eyes? I thought the same until about 1989, when I saw, for the first time, the Scriptures included in Operation Rescue literature. After seeing those Scriptures, I marvelled that the literature rack of a major Iowa prolife organization had not one brochure that included the Scriptures! Well actually they said they had one, but they were out; but they had dozens of other different pieces of literature that had none! I would have expected, that if they knew their position had God's support, they would say so in every brochure!

Anyway, I enclose some of those Scriptures for your consideration. Without knowing them, your position is perfectly logical.

With one other exception:

"Turn the Other Cheek"

I assume, by your statement that Jesus forbade self defense, you alluded to Matthew 5:39 "But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also. 40 And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloke also."

Verse 39 refers to duelling. If a young punk pokes you in the chest and calls you "chicken", Jesus tells us to not say "Let's settle this outside!" We aren't supposed to use lethal force to defend some sick notion of our "honor". Most state laws actually prohibit dueling. In Iowa a few years ago, it was thought very important to actually repeal the prohibition against dueling which had been in the Iowa Constitution; it was thought archaic, since nobody duels any more anyway! The repeal was passed by the legislature in two different election cycles, and then Iowans voted for the repeal! I hope they are right; I hope dueling doesn't return to Iowa! Except in the ghetto gangs and in bars, where it will never leave.

In the dates of the armor-covered Knights, they used their mailed (consisting of wire mesh) gloves to slap against the face of their opponent. First one cheek, than the other if the other doesn't block you. When revolvers were invented and armor was useless, the sophisticated gentlemen of the past would swish their silk gloves against the beard of their adversary; one cheek, then the other, if not blocked. Jesus says, don't block the strike on the other cheek. Let the fool insult you, but don't kill him over an insult!

My interpretation is supported by the definition of the Greek word for "right" in verse 39. Your "right" cheek is your "place of honor and authority".

I reprinted verse 40 also because it appears to support the interpretation of no resistance to an attack. Our job as Christians, when we face a verse that might be interpreted several ways based on words and grammar alone, is to select the interpretation consistent with the context of other verses.

That is why I read verse 40 as saying "If a man begins to sue you, try to settle." In other words, don't be motivated by honor; be motivated by staying out of court. Several other passages warn of what terrible, unjust, dangerous places courts are. 1 Corinthians 6, but significantly, just a few verses before "turn the other cheek": "25 Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison. 26 Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing."

Other verses say we should "suffer wrong":

1 Corinthians 6:7 Now therefore there is utterly a fault among you, because ye go to law one with another. Why do ye not rather take wrong? why do ye not rather suffer yourselves to be defrauded? 8 Nay, ye do wrong, and defraud, and that your brethren.

In other words, if we compare this with Matthew 5, Paul is not saying we should go out and look for opportunities for people to hurt us; but rather if we have the choice of suffering a minor loss and just letting it go, or going to court where we might get thrown in prison, wisdom requires us to set reasonable priorities. And certainly if the only "loss" to us is of our "honor", we had better come to grips with the fact that there is no "honor" in being a human being full of sin!

Another clue is found in Luke 12:13 And one of the company said unto him, Master, speak to my brother, that he divide the inheritance with me. 14 And he said unto him, Man, who made me a judge or a divider over you? 15 And he said unto them, Take heed, and beware of covetousness: for a man's life consisteth not in the abundance of the things which he possesseth.

Jesus continues on the subject of trusting God to provide all our physical needs, if we will but seek Him. In other words, in addition to our "honor" being counted by Jesus as not worth fighting over, property isn't worth much of a fight, either. Although Jesus even here has not gone so far as to say one should make no effort to preserve one's property rights, since elsewhere stewardship is respected. In this verse the man approaching Jesus has no legal right to the inheritance; the father had obviously willed it to the other son, so now that the father is dead and the inheritance has been disbursed, the son excluded from the will wants Jesus to ask the other son for some of it! Jesus' answer is to quit coveting what belongs to others (10th Commandment). God will provide you what you need, if you will "seek first the Kingdom of Heaven".

But even if you find reasons to disagree with details of my interpretation of these verses, how can you make them say we should not defend ourselves against someone trying to kill us? None of these passages dealt with lethal threats. Even if you thought Jesus said to let a man punch you in both sides of your face without resisting, that falls short of asking you to let a man kill you without resisting!

"He that takes the sword..."

If that is what you really think Jesus meant, then could you please send me your interpretation of Luke 22:36 "Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. 37 For I say unto you, that this that is written must yet be accomplished in me, And he was reckoned among the transgressors: for the things concerning me have an end. 38 And they said, Lord, behold, here are two swords. And he said unto them, It is enough."

The fact that Peter misused his sword a little later, in violation of Jesus' patient explanations why, this one time, he needed to allow himself to be killed, (John 18:11 Then said Jesus unto Peter, Put up thy sword into the sheath: the cup which my Father hath given me, shall I not drink it?) does not contradict verse 36. Peter's misuse of violence does not disprove the need for violence when appropriate, indicated by verse 36 and by Ecclesiastes 3:8. "1 To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven: ....8 A time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of peace."

The fact that Jesus told Peter, after his misuse of the sword, that "he who lives by the sword shall die by the sword", does not prove Jesus changed His mind and repented of what he said in Luke 22:36. In verse 38, Jesus had answered that 2 swords for 13 men was "enough". That does not constitute "living by the sword". That is, rather, the kind of odds God always counselled the armies of His people in the Old Testament. He liked them vastly outnumbered, so that their subsequent victory might be recognized as by the Hand of God, since physical might could not account for it!

(Psalm 33:16 There is no king saved by the multitude of an host: a mighty man is not delivered by much strength. Judges 7:2 "And the LORD said unto Gideon, The people that are with thee are too many for me to give the Midianites into their hands, lest Israel vaunt themselves against me, saying, Mine own hand hath saved me.")

These contexts help us select, as consistent with its context, the interpretation of Mat 26:52 that "all they that trust in the sword shall perish by it."

This thought is also supported by God's habit of using those very things in which men trust to betray them, in order to open their eyes and shake them loose from their addictions. Baal was a "rain god", so God punished its worshippers with 3 years of drought, followed by instant thunderstorms as soon as they suffered all the priests of Baal to be killed. (1 Kings 18.) Dagon was the Philistines' "fertility god", so God punished the Philistines with hemeroids! (1 Samuel 5) I understand several Egyptian "gods" were mocked by Moses' plagues, but I don't remember which.

By carrying two swords per 13 men, besides other followers, they carried just enough weaponry to participate in God's deliverance of them. Isaiah 63:5 and Matthew 25:26-27 shows how God is able to do everything by Himself, of course, but He likes our fellowship, working with him.

Matthew 26:52 Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword. 53 Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels? 54 But how then shall the scriptures be fulfilled, that thus it must be?

Matthew 16:23 was the earlier time Peter actually rebuked Jesus for wanting to rule, not by force as a king, but by conversion. Here Peter again raised his sword, disobeying Jesus' earlier directions. Jesus' rebuke was not just because Peter disobeyed; it was certainly not because use of a sword is always wrong; it was because Peter trusted in the power of swords. The Greek word for "take (the sword)" is defined as "....to associate with one's self as companion, attendant...."

"Thou Shalt Not Kill*" "Do not Judge*" "How Serious* is abortion?"

Feedback to P&A Website, and Uncle Ed.'s response

From: William F. Lambert <wlambert@bellatlantic.net>

To: <Feedback@panews.org> Saturday, November 10, 2001

Subject: This is sick

What a bunch of crap. Paul J. Hill is no better than the terrorist who flew into the World Trade Center. God told us not to kill. It is the twisted mind of man that comes to the conclusion that it is all right to kill if your cause is just. I don't believe God said anything like that.

While I surely have no right to judge, I truly believe that Paul J. Hill will rot in hell. Especially since he was a minister.

I'm not really sure what I think about abortion. There is one thing I am sure of. I am sick and tired of all the people in the world who think their God has given them the right to kill people. They are all incredibly stupid and I hope they suffer for their sins. Why didn't Mr. Hill set himself on fire in front of a clinic to protest????? No guts!!!!! Easier to kill someone else. Bill Lambert

Followup email:

Uncle? It is hard to picture you as someone's uncle. My uncles all fought in the Second World War, but they surely didn't advocate killing people as a way of solving problems.

There are a lot of legal ways to fight abortion. If you use them, and God is with you, you will prevail.

By any definition, you are a terrorist. I think the world is going to rid itself of terrorists. They have no place in a civilized world. Don't you think so?

Bill Lambert

PS. You seem to be soliciting opposing points of view. So there you are.....

Uncle Ed. Sez:

Dear Bill,

Thank you for your feedback! Most people, both ideological friends and enemies of mine, seldom muster the courage to express their disagreement with their ideological enemies.

(I don't mean to call you or anyone an enemy; I just can't think of a better term at the moment to explain what I mean.)

How can you not know what you think about abortion? Even children who can't form sentences are able to form a response to the idea of killing babies before they are born.

Even though you have not yet formed your position on this activity, can you see how much your position will affect your view of Paul Hill, once it is formed? If you determine abortion is merely the removal of dead, soul-less, inhuman "tissue", then obviously you will agree that Paul Hill is an anti-religious, evil-worshipping idiot. Who would kill a doctor for removing tumors?

Conversely, should your position become that abortion is the murder, for profit, of a tiny baby who is the epitome of innocence, then I hope you will remain "sick and tired of all the people in the world who kill people", but then suddenly it will occur to you that of all the mass murderers in the whole world, NOBODY kills more innocent people than abortionists!

NOBODY! Certainly nobody in America! But even if you consider all the tyrannies of the past and present, what network of killers has claimed more victims than the abortion industry? Certainly Hitler's paltry 6 million Jews cannot compare with America's 50 million slain! Estimates of all the victims of worldwide communism throughout all its history range between 60 million and 120 million, but that's over some 80 years; compare that with 50 million, just Americans, not counting abortions in the whole world, especially Russia and China, over just 31 years!

Won't that make you REALLY "sick and tired" of these people who kill people, should you conclude abortion really is killing an innocent human baby?

Have you reflected on the use of the word "innocent" in such prolife statements? Do you see the distinction between killing the innocent, versus killing the guilty? No one stumbles over the distinction when our nation talks about terrorists in Afghanistan. Obviously our purpose over there is to kill people; specifically the guilty terrorists, the ones responsible for ramming our jets into our skyscrapers. Yet we remain appalled at any thought of deliberately killing "innocent" civilians; that is, "innocent", in the sense they have done nothing to justify our hurting them in any way.

The existence of soldiers in America doesn't keep you from sleeping at night, does it? Even though their SOLE PURPOSE is to kill people? As long as they restrain their mission to self defense, killing only those guilty of trying to kill us, that doesn't seem a great world evil to you, does it? How about police, who carry guns for the SOLE purpose of killing people they cannot by more peaceful means keep from killing others? If that doesn't seem to you a great evil in the world, then it can only be because you accept my distinction between killing the innocent, and killing the guilty.

In the case of abortion, how can there be any human being more INNOCENT than an unborn baby? Or anyone more GUILTY than a man whose career consists of murdering 20,000 or more unborn babies for the sake of millions of dollars and powerful political influence?

You mentioned setting onself on fire. Obviously that would not have saved the babies scheduled to be slain the day Paul Hill shot the abortionist. So for you to even suggest such a solution, indicates you think Paul's purpose was to make some sort of moral statement. Whereas the purpose Paul actually expressed was to save lives. Of course, should you determine what to believe about abortion, that will shape your impression whether saving lives is a plausible goal for a conscientious Christian.

You mentioned the idea of Paul thinking God had called him to act as he did. Have you made up your mind about God? Have you made up your mind about whether God loves you, or whether He has the intelligence to actually communicate accurately with man, and if so, whether God's view of who is innocent and guilty is more relevant, and useful to us, than my view, or yours, or Paul's? And if it can really be that the Bible is God's accurate communication with man, have you decided whether it commands more moral authority than your own viewpoint, so that you will use its commands as a guide for distinguishing between good and evil? When you reach that point, it becomes much easier for humans to agree with one another about right and wrong: because they can show each other where their conclusions are derived from Scripture, and then others can study whether that really is the intent of Scripture or whether it twists Scripture.

I am expressing these thoughts to you to help you flesh out the details of your position so you can express yourself more fully. At least it is my own experience that most of my positions were developed in response to challenges to my previous, less-developed concepts. I say what I think, someone criticizes what I think with a point I hadn't thought of and don't know what to answer, so then I think how to work that point into my own view; which leads me either to alter my view to account for it, or strengthen my view by figuring out how to refute the new challenge.

I hope you will receive my challenge in the same spirit, and will think about it, and answer it. I realize there is not time in the world to resolve every difference of opinion, but I hope you will consider abortion important enough to form your understanding of, and then to take a position on.

Should you take the time to answer again, I will certainly try to take more of my time to talk again with you.

Ah, I just came across your second note. So you DO accept the distinction between killing the innocent or guilty; or at least, you don't even think of killing in war as "killing to solve a problem". Even though when an army kills battlefield opponents, it actually DOES solve a problem; so what you surely mean, when you dismiss any wickedness associated with fighting in a war, but are disgusted by killing abortionists, is that some killing is justified, while other killing is not. So the next challenge I lay before you, should you arrive at the conclusion that abortion is the murder of an innocent baby, is to answer Mother Theresa's question: "If we can't tell a mother not to kill her very own baby, how can we tell anyone not to kill anything?" Or, if it is justified to stop a foreign enemy by lethal force for killing a relatively paltry few thousand Americans, what is justified to stop domestic terrorists from slaying 1.5 MILLION AMERICANS PER YEAR?!

In Jesus' Name (Col 3:17) Dave Leach

Subject: (no subject)

Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2001

From: Tweetybff@aol.com

To: Glory2Jesus@armyofgod.com

I just want to say that I don't feel abortion is right. But I especially do not feel that you killing the people that do the killing of the babies is right either. If you supposedly believe in God and the Bible, it says in the Ten Commandments that thou shalt not kill. What makes you any differant from them. Even if it is a baby killing ?!@!?. God does not change his mind for anything because God is perfect.

Uncle Ed. Sez:

Dear Tweety,

I am confused by your question about distinguishing between an abortionist, and the killer of an abortionist. You say "I don't feel abortion is right". I would have guessed the thing about abortion which might feel "wrong" to you might be the 20,000 corpses of innocent babies which will fill the career of an average abortionist.

But then you say it feels even MORE wrong, to you, to kill the abortionist. The part that confuses me is that unless I am wrong in guessing what it is about abortion that "feels" wrong to you, I would have thought the very thing which feels wrong to you about abortion would be the thing which would make you feel good about stopping it.

If you had said "it is almost as bad to kill one abortionist as it is for the abortionist to kill 20,000 babies during his career", I would have understood. But when you say it is WORSE to kill one abortionist, than for that abortionist to live to kill 20,000 more babies, I am confused. By what possible standard do you place the value of one abortionist HIGHER than the value of thousands of babies?

(Later, see below, "Tweety" sent a defiant email promising to become an abortionist.)

Subject: my thoughts

Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2001

From: "krista rehurek" <krehurek@videotron.ca

To: <Glory2Jesus@ArmyofGod.com

I would like to know on what u people r getting out of this because u guys r also disobeying 1 of the 10 commandments by killing the doctors of abortion I think just by posting this web site your doing the wrong thing and u would have to pay for your sins based of the crimes that has been commuted and do u fell proud based on what most people r doing in this world today, also women that goes thought abortion has the right to live there lives and no one can control it we r who we are no body can change that and unless u tell your followers to stop these acts crimes I will have no choirs but to start a rebellion against on what u r doing From: Trowa Barton

"Thou Shalt Not Kill*" "How Can This Strategy* work?" "ChoiceRules*" "Those Terrible Pictures*"

Subject: I'm looking for research on this topic for a class

Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001

From: "amber fazer" <a_fazer@hotmail.com>

To: PraiseJesus@ArmyofGod.com

To whom it may concern: I was fortunate enough to recently see the story on 20/20 about the leader of Army of God. There are a few questions I have concerning the topic abortion. First, I would like to know how killing anyone is going to solve the problem? In my religion the ten commandments are law. I believe one of them is "Thou shall not kill." How do you justify your actions? I myself believe that every person has the power to do what they will with there body. I also have seen your website. Where in the world do you obtain these obscene pictures of aborted children? Taking anothers' life is not going to make up for an aborted baby, it's just adding another problem to our world. I know you've probably heard this a million times but I would really like to hear your side. Please email me back. Thank You.

Uncle Ed. Sez: Thank you for really wanting another side.

If you consider 20,000 slain babies a "problem", then can you see how the death of a single abortionist, whose career will, on average, consist of murdering that many, might be a "solution"?

Some of the first pictures of slain babies were procured by raiding trash containers outside abortion centers. One of the most famous of those early raiders was George Grant, an associate of Dr. D. James Kennedy in Florida. Grant has written prolife books.

There was one time when prolifers went up to an abortion center and found it -- empty! They expected to go in and be arrested, but instead, miraculously, they went in and found no one! So they found the corpses themselves inside, and photographed them.

How long will your "research" paper be? I hope it is longer than the typical news story, which hardly provides enough space to do justice to the typic, even if they didn't start with strong pro-murder, anti-Bible prejudice. If you have a question you don't find addressed on my web site, please write again.

Subject: GOD'S left hand

Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001

From: NOnamr69@aol.com

To: Glory2Jesus@armyofgod.com

You know that God wouldn't want you to kill all these people. You aren't the army of God you are the army of Satan so when you say that I am a member of gods army you should think would God want me to kill people? So you people let God do what he wants with the bad people who can't take responsibility for there action. IF YOU DON'T AGREE WITH ME THEN YOUR DISAGREEING WITH GOD'S LEFT HAND

"Thou Shalt Not Kill*" "How can this Strategy* Work?"

Subject: My thoughts on your organization

Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001

From: (Name withheld by request)

To: "'Glory2Jesus@ArmyofGod.com'" <Glory2Jesus@ArmyofGod.com>

Dear "Army of God":

My thoughts - whether one is pro-life, pro-choice, or pro-whatever is beside the point. Your organization's support and glorification of killing human beings espoused in your organization, its references to felon Clayton Waagner and on your site is revolting and contrary to the actions taken by civilized human beings. It is contrary to the very words of God. (Remember those Ten Commandments? Go back and read them more closely. There aren't any exceptions to "thou shalt not kill" for those with whom you disagree.) Your members, in my eyes, are no different from Al-Qaeda terrorists. I am confident that there will be a special place in Hell for people like you. I hope that sometime before you reach Hell and/or before you kill again, you realize the gross errors of your ways and how your terrorist tactics will undermine the very goal that you hope to achieve - the outlawing of abortion. Your actions merely serve to further marginalize pro-life supporters as crazed, murderous lunatics who not only do not respect the laws of the country in which we reside, but of the God which you worship.

There is still time for you to change the focus of your organization to voice your opinions about abortion in a peaceful way. For the sake of your souls, I hope that you do it soon.

(Name withheld by request)

Uncle Ed. Sez:

Dear _____, your "views" about "prolife" really aren't irrelevant to your perception of this issue. Obviously if there is no God, or if God does not define babies as humans, the killing of whom is "murder", or if God indeed tells us to remain passive and respectful while innocents are being slaughtered around us, then, indeed, you are absolutely right; and we are absolutely wrong.

We find God's Word very compelling. Our mission is to proclaim its relevance to this, as well as other issues. If you can help us refine our theology, we are all ears. Since the only point you made bordering on the Biblical was about the 6th Commandment, we will send a little information on that, and invite you to browse our website for more information.

For the record, neither Don nor myself has ever killed anyone, or even tried to injure anybody. I know ABC called Don the "Army of God" general, but I hope you noticed they also portrayed Don as not knowing what any of his troops are doing until they do it. Some "general". Don is just a simple retired preacher with a website, who has friendships with some of the people he defends.

From: (Same name withheld by request)

To: 'Dave' <uncle-ed@ia-omni.com>~

Subject: RE: <no subject>~

Date: Tue, Dec 4, 2001, 11:23 AM

Dear Dave

Thanks for your reply. I maintain my position, but appreciate your taking the time to prepare a response. In any event, I'd prefer that I not be identified on your site or my e-mail posted or republished as I have not explicity consented to this.

Value of Discussion*

Uncle Ed. Sez:

I offered to de-identify your email. I regard even that as a courtesy, not a legal requirement. I did not offer to not publish it. It is unreasonable to write to a man, tell him why he is going to hell, and when he arranges for a time consuming response, to not only fluff it off yourself but forbid him telling others what you did to him. That would be like hitting him in the jaw, backstage, on his way to the microphone, and as he is reeling, trying to remember where he is going or what he is going to say, telling him he has no right to tell anybody you hit him.

In case you thought it did, copyright protection does not apply to warning someone they are going to hell. Even if you had used the word "copyright". The essential exception to copyright protection is when the copyrighted material is the subject of criticism. Which your material is, in this case. Were the law otherwise, it would be against the law to criticize any copyrighted literature, from a news story to a political analysis! Freedom of Speech as we know it would be over!

I understand it is an idiom of society to say "I maintain my position, but I won't bother to answer you." But think about it: how securely can you "maintain a position" which you can't defend?

I understand there are Biblical reasons for not continuing a discussion. Perhaps you judge me as having no more regard for sound reasoning than a hog does for pearls.

Matthew 7:6 Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.

Perhaps there are just too many other mission fields calling you, preventing your spending more time here.

Luke 4:42 And when it was day, he departed and went into a desert place: and the people sought him, and came unto him, and stayed him, that he should not depart from them. 43 And he said unto them, I must preach the kingdom of God to other cities also: for therefore am I sent.

The next passage seems to contradict itself, but it acknowledges there is a right way and a wrong way to respond to a fool. Verse 4 says you must not drop to his level of absurdity. Verse 5 says you must, however, not merely ignore him; but you must silence him.

Proverbs 26:4 Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him. 5 Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit.

1 Peter 2:15 For so is the will of God, that with well doing ye may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men:

The previous verse is in a context which most assume means slavish obedience to tyrants as well as to just government, about which I have much to say later. But the point here is that the ignorance of foolish men must be put to silence.

You also have a duty to warn, if you have useful information.

Ezekiel 3:18 When I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; and thou givest him not warning, nor speakest to warn the wicked from his wicked way, to save his life; the same wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand.

Is it that you can't think of how to answer me? Then pray for the wisdom to obey 1 Peter 3:15 "But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:"

This is out of character for me, to give someone a hard time for wanting to end a conversation. Normally I am quick to sense lack of interest and to end a conversation before others tire of it. But there is something about "I maintain my position, but appreciate your taking the time to prepare a response" that strikes me. You enter a controversial forum, you say Don will surely reside in Hell, that he puts out the image of a "crazed, murderous lunatic", and then when I address your points you respond that you "maintain your position", but you don't say a single word in defense of your position, or to refute any of mine.

I just thought I might point out to you that should there be readers who find my response at all persuasive, they may see your decision to drop the discussion ball as an admission that you have no answer, that you are finding the maintenance of your position more tedious than you had hoped. Luke 14:28-30.

I don't mean to offend or insult. Perhaps you have a sound, Biblical reason for quitting now. Even if you don't, you are more to be commended than the average American who mutters at a safe distance, afraid even to speak where an answer may be possible. I am answering not just for your benefit, but also for the benefit of all of you who may read this, who too quickly give up reasoning with adversaries. I just want to provoke all of you to not give up.

Don't fear being shown wrong; that is the only way to find the road to Right. Don't fear running out of effective words to refute evil; God promises to provide them. Luke 12:12. Don't fear your wisest words will never prevail against the hard hearts you face: God promises that some of your seed will sprout and bear "a hundredfold". Matthew 13:8.

"Don't Judge*" "Those terrible Pictures*"

Subject: Your Website.....Please Read.........

Date: Sat, 01 Dec 2001

From: "ads" <ads@setel.com>

To: Glory2Jesus@ArmyofGod.com

Hello. I am 14 years old and I am a Christian who strongly believes in God and in the Bible and what it says. I am also against abortion. I think it is wrong and it is murder. But in reguards to the man who killed the abortionist...I think that is just as wrong as abortion is. That was cold blooded murder. Then for you a man of God to praise him for it for everyone to see that is just plain wrong.

You talk about how Slepian is burining in hell. All I have to say to that is the Bible says Do not judge. You just judged that man by telling everyone that he is in hell. You have no right to judge where that man is spending eternity. Personally as a Christian I do not think that is right for you to praise anyone who is murdering. You are against abortion and I see your point on that but see you are praising people for killing abortionist, that is the same praising abortionist because they are all killers.

One last thing...as if praisng killers wasn't enough you show pictures of babies who were killed. If you really cared for these babies, you would put them on the internet like that. Portaying them not as the people they could've been but simply as "things" to help get more humans on your side.

So in conclusion I have only one thing to say..... your website is disgusting.

Uncle Ed. Sez:

Dear Ads,

I am puzzled by your belief that killing an abortionist "is just as wrong as abortion is". Do you base that on something in the Bible?

Do you agree abortion is the mass murder of over 10,000 babies by the career of each abortionist? Do you agree, then, that killing one abortionist prevents that one abortionist from killing thousands more babies? Do you still see no difference between killing one abortionist, and that abortionist killing thousands of babies?

Judging.

You talk about judging, and you say the Bible is your source, but your understanding of judging does not match my impressions of God's Word. I wonder if you have read all of it? I wonder which Scriptures are your guide to the meaning of judging? Have you actually read about it in the Bible? I have to ask because atheists say as much as you have said about judging in the Bible, all the time.

Are you interested in a comprehensive Bible study of judging?

I hope to hear from you; but meanwhile, to provoke you to think more about your position, let me challenge you to ponder whether your criticism of Don constitutes "judging" any more than Don's criticism of abortionists? And if you, too, are judging Don, then let me challenge you to consider what God might have to say about how to judge Biblically -- when judging is Godly. Let me challenge you to also consider whether you accept the legitimacy of government? Because if you literally reject, categorically, the authority of anyone to judge, then what must you think of American Judges? If you are content with the existence of judges, then try to think of how to put in words why you think the words of Jesus about judging do not apply to judges who not only form an opinion about you but put you in jail, fine you, or execute you in accordance with their opinion, but do apply to Don Spitz, a simple retired preacher who merely expresses opinions upon which he has never taken physical action?

If you believe the whole Bible is God's Word, every letter of it, as stated in Matthew 5:18, then let me challenge you to refine your theology so that it is consistent with passages like John 7:24 "Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment."

John 8:15 is another passage you should consider. It contrasts a wrong kind of judging, "after the flesh", with Jesus' kind of judging, where Christians pass judgment only when they can find a "second witness" in the Word of God. (The "witness" terminology is from Moses' law which says no one can be convicted of a crime based on the testimony of only one witness to the crime. Deuteronomy 17:6 "At the mouth of two witnesses, or three witnesses, shall he that is worthy of death be put to death; but at the mouth of one witness he shall not be put to death.")

John 8:15 Ye judge after the flesh; I judge no man. 16 And yet if I judge, my judgment is true: for I am not alone, but I and the Father that sent me. 17 It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true. 18 I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me.

Then there is 1 Corinthians 6, the whole chapter, which, very bluntly, very powerfully, establishes the far greater competence of Christians, to judge, than government judges. I short excerpt follows, beginning with the two verses that lead in to chapter six.

Let me first briefly explain the unusual terminology of these two verses: they refer to the jurisdiction of Christians to hold court and impose sentences on others, which is only over each other. ("Jurisdiction" is a word referring to the boundaries of a judge's authority. For example, a French judge has no "jurisdiction" over Americans, unless the Americans are in France.) Members of a church have no authority over non-church members. That is, they have no police power to arrest offenders outside the church and put them in jail. Paul had previously urged that the Corinthians take action against a church member who fornicated with his own mother. In these verses he is simply saying "Look, it's not as if I'm asking you to judge outsiders over whom you have no jurisdiction. You have jurisdiction over this man -- you can excommunicate him -- and you had better exercise it." Keep in mind that the Greek word krino, translated "judge", has the same wide range of meaning as our English word: all the way from merely expressing an opinion, to operating a court room complete with witnesses, juries, police, lawyers, judges, jailers, and executioners.

When Paul mentioned the inability of the Corinthians to judge non-church members, he wasn't saying they ought not express opinions about the sins of non-church members. He wasn't limiting their freedom of speech.

He wasn't telling Christians to stop warning sinners, as commanded by Ezekiel 3:18-20! "When I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; and thou givest him not warning, nor speakest to warn the wicked from his wicked way, to save his life; the same wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand...."

He wasn't telling Christians to stop witnessing, as Jesus commanded in Mark 16:15! "And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature."

Now here is the 1 Corinthians 6 exerpt:

1 Corinthians 5:12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within? 13 But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person. 6:1 Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints? 2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters? 3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?

Do you believe the Bible is the Word of God? I ask you this because if you do, I can continue this discussion by merely showing you Scriptures; but if you don't, perhaps you would like to see the scientific evidence that the Bible is, indeed, the word of God.

In other words, in order to get us on the same track so we can have a meaningful discussion, we need a source of information we both trust. I trust the Bible. If you do not, I need to know what source of authority you do trust beyond your own impressions of right and wrong. The Qu'ran? The B'hagavad Gita? Psychology? American laws? I am confident that whatever you trust, whoever you worship, it is possible for any two human beings to move towards mutual understanding. The only real barrier is not wanting to. Every lesser barrier can be breached, with a little work.

Those Horrible Pictures.

Do you really mean what you say about the pictures of slaughtered babies being disrespectful to the babies? I must admit that is a concept I have never heard before. What then do you think of the pictures of slaughtered Jews that fill the Holocaust Museum? Do you think the Museum is disrespectful to Jews? Their reason for their pictures is that mankind might never forget the atrocities of which men are capable who are unrestrained by other men, in order that in the future when men rise to such wickedness, others, recognizing the pattern, might restrain them. (Those are my words for their motive, but I think they are close.) Does that seem like a legitimate goal of Jews? Does it seem a less legitimate goal for babies?

I would like to discuss this with you more. I ask these questions partly to challenge you to think more about your position, and partly because I don't know how to answer more helpfully without knowing more about where your thinking is.

In Jesus' Name (Col 3:17)

Dave Leach

"Do not Judge*"

Subject: Matthew 7

Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001

From: Jamis421@aol.com

To: PraiseJesus@armyofgod.com

"Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you."

Uncle Ed. Sez: Yes, that's the passage. By the standard you judge others, by that same standard God will judge you.

Although you have been admirably careful not to add your own reasoning to God's Word, so that I can have no basis for certainty that you misunderstand it, it is interesting to speculate to whom you think the verse applies. It has been such a favorite verse among so many others who have more fully expressed themselves, but who apparently did not know it is found in Matthew 7.

Could it possibly be you think the verse applies to Don and I, in a way which does not apply to you? That is the view of others whose views are explicit.

If so, consider the next time someone is being a jerk, and you try to say a few words to snap him out of it and make him normal again. Do you want everyone to jump all over you and emasculate the healing power of your words, by accusing you of "judging"?

Consider also if it is you that is being a jerk. It happens to all of us on occasion. Hopefully you don't like the feeling and appreciate it when someone takes the trouble to help you restore your perspective.

There is such a thing as "righteous judgment". John 7:24. It is good to receive such judgment, as well as good to give it; it is even cruel to have it, yet not to give it.

Subject: I am THE ONE GOD!

Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001

From: "God Theone" <godtheone@hotmail.com>

To: Glory2Jesus@ArmyofGod.com

Stop this foolishness of killing. If you want to kill something kill yourself. That would be a selfless act and I would elevated you to the my kingdom of heaven.

God

Uncle Ed. Sez: If you are God, why aren't you quoting Scripture? Jesus quoted Scripture all the time; even to Satan. You know what? I don't think you are God.

"Do not Judge*"

Subject: revenge

Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001

From: "Cindy Harrison" <interproductions@home.com

To: <Glory2Jesus@ArmyofGod.com

An eye for an eye- a tooth for a tooth- you folks are no better than the primitive Arab tribes of Muhammed's time, burying girl babies in the sand. You justify murder for murder- you place yourself in the throne of Christ (but with a gun in hand). How blasphemous and audacious can you be, playing God. Let God do God's work. Let us not judge others, but simply live our own lives as we see best. Who are you to sit in the throne of God to judge others? Murder, my brother, whether of innocent babies or adults, is not Christian. You do infinite harm to those who, in peace, call themselves "Christian" and reduce Christianity to the level of the pagan desert tribes. Repent your murderous desires and actions before both man and God condemn you to Hell. Dr. J.V.S Sarasota Florida

Uncle Ed. Sez: Men condemning me to Hell? Burying babies in the sand on exactly the same level as stopping a man with 20,000 tiny notches on his scalpel? Placing ourselves on the throne of Christ? I sense you are capable of serious discussion, but these overstatements leave me perplexed where to begin responding to you. If you care to look over the information on our site and write again with points stated more precisely, I will be glad to address them.

"Bow2Bort*"

Subject: question

Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001

From: "buffetistheman" <buffetistheman@msn.com

To: <Glory2Jesus@ArmyofGod.com

do you have a posistion on women who have had abortions in their past when they found themselves in a horrible situation and were victimized by men, friends, and family into truly beleiving they were doing nothing wrong. im in a bit of a moral and philosophical jam and am looking for answers. id love to discuss it with you but first i was wondering what your posistion was. Im on your side. Keep up the good work.Thanks

Uncle Ed. Sez: Your "dilemma" exactly describes the condition of every Christian at each new revelation of God's standards for his life, where his eyes are opened to mistakes he has been making without even knowing.

God does not expect us never to have made mistakes. He expects us, upon realizing our errors, to work with Him to correct them.

You aren't in any jam I can't relate to.

Acts 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: 31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

Some feel it minimizes the gravity of abortion, to say it can be repented of and put in one's past. Praise God, no! It is just like growing up. If you wet your pants at 2, no big deal. If you still wet them at 6, big deal. The more you learn, the more God expects.

Luke 12:47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. 48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

Fortunately no parent has difficulty forgiving a 10-year-old for the messes he made at 3, and God is even more loving than any parent -- and is Able to clean up our messes even more perfectly! Trust Jesus!

"Do Not Judge*"

Subject: (no subject)

Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001

From: RiZDoG64@aol.com

To: Glory2Jesus@armyofgod.com

burn in hell

Uncle Ed. Sez: My, My! Could this be what people mean when they talk about "judging"?

Subject: Abortion

Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001

From: FUNHOG1@aol.com

To: Glory2Jesus@armyofgod.com

I saw something on Television about your web site and your sick followers. Anyone who thinks "Killing" is all right to "protect unborn life" is as sick as Asma Bin-Laden and Hitler. I believe that people should have the right to make their own choices about Abortion and let God be their Judge. It amazes me that you people can get away with bombings and killings, and think it is just. You all quote the Bible but none of you read and understand God's will or his own commandments. Only he has the right to judge. Also, our own Supreme court has ruled more than once that abortion, in certain circumstances, is legal. The funny thing is the "Abortion issue" has no direct effect on my life and not a cause that I am passionate about. I'm just sick and tired of all the radical crazies trying to shove their opinions and extremist views down our throats with violence and terrorism. I truly hope that our legal system actively and aggressively goes after the violent antiabortionist and treats them like the Terrorist they really are.

Please do not respond to me or send me any of your sick information. I'm not interested in receiving anything from you. From a concerned citizen about the future of our world.

"Those Terrible Pictures*"

Subject: photos of aborted fetuses

Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 06:30:08 -0500

From: "Mi May" <kookyloon@msn.com

To: <PraiseJesus@ArmyofGod.com

several descriptions here about the photos of aborted fetuses: horrific, disturbing, putrid, maddening,beyond belief horror,how can anyone do that? sickening,gut wrenching,absolute horror..mind bending,spirit bending, these images can warp one's very soul..FOREVER..how can someone particpate in this absolute horrible beyond words depravity?? I am very sorry for these souls that were violated so horribly..i am at a loss for words,how can i describe my emotions at site of absolute incredible EVIL..may the end times rapidly increase and the coming GLORY of GOD mop up the absolute mess in the world!!! I am certainly not an "Angel" and have many faults and GOD shall instill HIS punishment unto me for all of my misdeeds, but ANYONE who would participate in this unGodly act has a special place in HADES but who am I to judge..I must go now..and try and forget these HORRIFIC images for awhile..but they shall "haunt" me for eternity..and people complain about how hard they have it..but upon seeing these images i shall NEVER complain about the trivial, stupid lil problems encountered in average everyday life MARANATHA!!

Subject: question

Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2001

WallyKing77@aol.com

To: Glory2Jesus@armyofgod.com

What religion are you?

Uncle Ed. Sez:

Both Don and I are Christians.

Sometimes people ask me, "Are you a Baptist? A Pentecostal? I Methodist? A Catholic?

Here's what I am: I am LOST WITHOUT JESUS. Same as you.

"Thou Shalt Not Kill*"

Subject: shame on you

Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2001

From: "Manning, Denise" <Denise.Manning@LibertyMutual.com> To: "'praisejesus@armyofgod.com'" <praisejesus@armyofgod.com>

For GOD said" the battle is not yours, but the Lords", Ten Commandments (remember those?) "Thou shalt not kill" Your just like satan, you people are out to "Kill, steal & destroy", & you don't have the rightTheses woman have to stand before GOD for their sins, & SO DO YOU!

Denise I. Manning ext.4287 New Castle CSR

Uncle Ed. Sez:

I'm enclosing my understanding of the Sixth Commandment. If your understanding of it differs, please tell me at what point.

Neither Don nor myself has any desire to face judgment for the sins of others. We have enough of our own to make us uneasy. But Ezekiel 3:18-20 actually says if we refuse to give God's warning to sinners, yes, we WILL actually face judgment for their sins!

Prolife Verses*, Bow2Bort*

Subject: (no subject)

Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2001

From: TiNyEez14@aol.com

To: PraiseJesus@armyofgod.com

hello. We were watching 20/20 the other night, & were wondering a few things about you. Why do you think it's so wrong to have an abortion? if your a young woman & you dont want to mess up your life, by having a baby, then i dont want to say its a good idea, but it could help that girl out. if your not ready to have a baby then it could. im not saying a child isnt a blessing, but when your 15 years old, your not ready. Plus they may make their own decison. thank you for time. please e-mail us back.

Uncle Ed. Sez:

Thanks for contacting us, and especially thanks for your closing "please e-mail us back", indicating your sincere desire to understand our position.

Don forwarded your note to me, to answer on behalf of our mutual interest.

If the Bible did not explain why abortion is wrong, we would be far less concerned about it. But if God says it is wrong, and furthermore that it may be indeed the greatest crime of America's history, then indeed we, and you, too, had better be concerned.

Here are some of the verses:

Prolife Verses*

Luke 1 says the 6-months-along John recognized the voice of the mother of the embryonic Jesus and leaped for joy, proving humans have advanced consciousness even in the womb.

Luke 1:39 And Mary arose in those days, and went into the hill country with haste, into a city of Juda; 40 And entered into the house of Zacharias, and saluted Elisabeth. 41 And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost: 42 And she spake out with a loud voice, and said, Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb. 43 And whence is this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me? 44 For, lo, as soon as the voice of thy salutation sounded in mine ears, the babe leaped in my womb for joy.

In Psalm 139, the most powerful King of his time describes his own development in the womb as if it were HIM in there from the beginning, not some blob which later turned into him.

Psalm 139:13 For thou hast possessed my reins: thou hast covered me in my mother's womb. 14 I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made: marvellous are thy works; and that my soul knoweth right well. 15 My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, and curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth. 16 Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy book all my members were written, which in continuance were fashioned, when as yet there was none of them.

In Jeremiah 1, God assigned him a life's work even before his conception.

Jeremiah 1:5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.

Leviticus 20 warns of judgment upon every man who fails to prevent a neighbor from killing her own child.

Leviticus 20:1 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, 2 Again, thou shalt say to the children of Israel, Whosoever he be of the children of Israel, or of the strangers that sojourn in Israel, that giveth any of his seed unto Molech; he shall surely be put to death: the people of the land shall stone him with stones. 3 And I will set my face against that man, and will cut him off from among his people; because he hath given of his seed unto Molech, to defile my sanctuary, and to profane my holy name. 4 And if the people of the land do any ways hide their eyes from the man, when he giveth of his seed unto Molech, and kill him not: 5 Then I will set my face against that man, and against his family, and will cut him off, and all that go a whoring after him, to commit whoredom with Molech, from among their people.

But the Scripture which most moves me is the Old Testament version of the Luke 10 story of The Good Samaritan. Proverbs 24:11-12 launched Operation Rescue over a decade ago:

"Rescue those being led away to death; hold back those staggering toward slaughter. Don't try to disclaim responsibility by saying you didn't know about it. For God, who knows all hearts, knows yours, and he knows you knew! And he will reward everyone according to his deeds.

It is governments which lead their victims to their death, staggering to their execution. Not thieves. Thieves don't have enough power over their victims to choose when and how to kill them. They must kill on the spot, or not at all. Likewise we cannot save people from thieves because we cannot know when they will strike; but government strikes in the open.

Romans 13:1 commands us to obey the higher powers, plural. That is why Christians are the most law abiding of all men, when the higher powers agree; but have always been a thorn in government's side when man's laws violate God's laws. When there is a Conflict of Laws, Christians will obey the Highest Authority.

R U about to abort? (Bow2bort*)

If you are 15 and pregnant, don't despair of obeying God! David really messed up. He fornicated with another man's wife; not content with a dozen or two of his own beautiful wives! And when she got pregnant, well he probably would have committed abortion if he knew how, but instead he aborted the woman's husband. Really messed up bad. 2 Samuel 11-12

So you wouldn't think anything that came of that union would be worth diddly, would you? But the second child of David and Bathsheba was Solomon, whom God "loved", and made the wisest man of all time. 1 Kings 3

So if you are 15 and you messed up, don't pick THIS of all times to compound your sin by killing an innocent baby! Or if I have spoken to you too late and you have already done just that, don't further compound your sin by defending the indefensible! Turn to God now, wherever you are, after whatever you have done, and watch God turn curses into blessings! But as long as you rebel, expect God to turn blessings into curses. That is, so long as God sees any hope in you. If you are living a life of sin, and God is leaving you alone, beware! Proverbs 13:24, Hebrews 12:6

Subject: kooks

Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2001

From: "whitney3" <whitney3@teknett.com

To: <Glory2Jesus@ArmyofGod.com

my belief is you "people" are of a "sick" nature. DANGEROUS as well. for shame!!!

Subject: You

Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2001

From: Megaman9man@aol.com

To: Glory2Jesus@armyofgod.com

You make us Arcanists sick...

Uncle Ed. Sez:

Uh, OK.

"Those Terrible Pictures*" "Law*" "ChoiceRules*" "Eye*"

Subject: (no subject)

Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2001

From: DiNa148@aol.com

To: PraiseJesus@armyofgod.com

ok... at first i was for pro-choice.. but these pictures have made decide otherwise.... i have mixed feelings... i think there are certain circumstances... like incest... rape...and some others that i will agree with a persons choice of abortion.... however i think the abortion of a baby after 3 months is cruel... I also believe, that everyone has free will... it would be against our constitution for abortion to be illegal.... a woman can choose to do whatever she wants... we have freedom of speech which allows your website to be on the internet.... If a woman chooses to be catholic... or jewish or muslim, that is her choice.. due to HER beliefs... so she can choose to have an abortion.... We are humans we have the ability to choose.. GOD has given us that gift... it is wrong for anyone to take that gift away from us.... Also if you are a catholic... and you believe so strongly in not killing babies what gives you the right to kill abortionists? two wrongs do not make a right.... an eye for an eye only leaves two people blind... GOD says to do unto others as you would have done unto yourself..... i think this whole website is against the christian message.... Sincerely, Annie Beth Mc Geary

Uncle Ed. Sez:

We are grateful for your report that the pictures on Don's site have steered you away from feeling "pro-choice" at least as far as having "mixed feelings". I pray you will keep moving in the direction of the same Love for babies that God has. Matthew 18:14 "Even so it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish."

Are you a news reporter? I haven't seen this fine a collection of 5-second sound bites for some time! Each of your phrases tempts me to take an hour to expound, but I'm going to try to answer each of your points as briefly as you have stated them. Then if you are interested in any further response on any point, please write again.

"ok... at first i was for pro-choice.. but these pictures have made decide otherwise...."

Again, thanks!

"i have mixed feelings... i think there are certain circumstances... like incest... rape..."

Would you like to be tried for your father's crimes? Yet you want to execute children of rape without even a trial?!

"and some others that i will agree with a persons choice of abortion...."

Still more exceptions? What, disability? Why don't you ask the next disabled person you see if they wish they had been killed in the womb, and tell me what you learn?

"however i think the abortion of a baby after 3 months is cruel..."

Much more serious than merely "cruel". Even "mass murder" is an incredible understatement. A typical abortionist kills 20,000 infants during his career.

"I also believe, that everyone has free will..."

Yes! We can even choose Hell! Don and I choose to obey God, who tells us to warn you. (Thank you for your initial response to Don's warning!)

"it would be against our constitution for abortion to be illegal...."

Then how did almost every state get away with outlawing it from America's founding until 1973? Even the Roe court never claimed to discover a "right" to choose. They couldn't even concoct a shadow of a right to choose. They discovered, says they, a "penumbra" -- a shadow of a shadow of a right. A great many legal scholars today can't even "find" that.

"a woman can choose to do whatever she wants..."

Unfortunately choices have consequences.

"we have freedom of speech which allows your website to be on the internet...."

Uh, yes. And?

"If a woman chooses to be catholic... or jewish or muslim, that is her choice.. due to HER beliefs... so she can choose to have an abortion.... We are humans we have the ability to choose.. GOD has given us that gift..."

Indeed. God lets us choose between Heaven and Hell. He won't force anyone to accept His Love. What will you choose?

"it is wrong for anyone to take that gift away from us...."

What, by shooting abortists, you mean? Do you think God cannot squeeze enough time for an eternal choice into a man's last moment? Have you read about Ananias and Sapphira in Acts 3? Can it ever be wrong to obey God?

"Also if you are a catholic... and you believe so strongly in not killing babies what gives you the right to kill abortionists?"

Don is not Catholic. Check Proverbs 24:10-12, Luke 1:42-44, Jeremiah 1:5, Psalms 139:13-16, Leviticus 20:1-5.

"two wrongs do not make a right...."

Let's discern what is "wrong".

"an eye for an eye only leaves two people blind..."

Let's not blind ourselves to God's Commandments.

"GOD says to do unto others as you would have done unto yourself....."

If I became so far gone I started killing thousands for no fault of theirs, I would want to be stopped "dead in my tracks"!

"i think this whole website is against the christian message.... Sincerely, Annie Beth Mc Geary"

After considering this information, if you still think so, please give us more details why.

"Eye*"

Date: Sat, 01 Dec 2001

From: "Jane Harrison" <jane_yep@hotmail.com>

To: glory2jesus@armyofgod.com

What's wrong with you? Two wrongs do not make a right. How can you possibly think that you are doing a service by killing people? B/c they killed an unborn fetus, you kill a grown person? Tell me how this makes sense. This is barabaric and frightening. Jane Harrison

Uncle Ed. Sez: Maybe you missed the news. Abortionists don't kill just one unborn baby, though surely that alone should alarm you. They kill, typically, 20,000 throughout their career. Does that detail help you make sense of it? Does that affect your perception of who, here, is "barbaric"?

Subject: You guys

Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2001

From: TooFarGon1946@aol.com

To: Glory2Jesus@armyofgod.com

You guys are more proof that God does not exist....TooFarGon

"Jesus was Nonviolent*"

Date: Sat, 01 Dec 2001

From: "Luke Hosfield" <toymachine6328@hotmail.com>

To: Glory2Jesus@ArmyofGod.com

Hi I am a fellow Christian as your organization is. I also agree that abortions have to stop becuase they are immoral unethical and unGodly. One thing that I do not approve of is useing violence to stop this sin. By using a sin to stop another sin, In my eyes, hypocritical. Violence only cuases more anger and more tension between everyone. Ask youself, " Would Jesus(based on him never being violent)bomb a abortionalist?" I suggest useing non-violent forms of protest. In no way am I trying to force my opinion on to you I am merely giving you another perspective. Always remember Jesus loves you!!

Love, A lamb of a shepherd

Uncle Ed. Sez:

What does it matter, of what you approve? Or of what I approve? We are guided by our best understanding of what God approves. If you have some light on that from Scripture, please share it.

Please let me challenge you to incorporate Acts 5, Matthew 21:12, Mark 11:5, and Revelation 19:11-15 into your theory of Jesus' nonviolence. Let me know how it comes out.

"Rape*"

Original Message --------

Subject: ABORTION

Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2001

From: MKahoun@aol.com

To: Glory2Jesus@armyofgod.com

DEAR REV. DONALD SPITZ, I SAW YOUR INTERVIEW ON 20/20 ABOUT ABORTION AND I WAS SHOCKED AT WHAT YOU SAID ABOUT ABORTION. I HAVE A QUESTION FOR YOU. WHAT IF A WOMAN GET'S PREGNANT AS A RESULT OF A RAPE OR INCEST IS IT OK FOR HER TO GET AN ABORTION? I CERTAINLY THINK IT IS AND I'M A CATHOLIC AND A REPUBLICAN. I THINK IT'S JUST SICK IF A WOMAN GET'S PREGNANT AS A RESULT OF THE ABOVE CONTENTS. HOW CAN YOU CALL YOURSELF A PREACHER AND SEND OUT FAKE ANTHRAX LETTERS AND BE HAPPY ABOUT IT. YOU SHOULD BE BROUGHT UP ON FEDERAL CHARGES AND YOUR SOMEONE WHO PREACHES THE WORD OF THE LORD. I HOPE YOUR NOT ONE OF THEM JERRY FALWELL TYPES BECAUSE I JUST CAN'T STAND THEM TYPES. AND YOU CALL YOURSELF A MAN OF THE CLOTH. I THINK NOT! PLEASE RESPOND TO MY LETTER. MARGARET

Uncle Ed. Sez:

Thank you for inviting a response. Would you like to be judged for your father's sins? If not, then why do you think it just to execute babies of rape without even a trial?

Are you sure you want to remain a Catholic, if you do not accept the Pope's infallible teachings on abortion? But even if prolifers would concede abortion is justified in the case of rape or incest, that leaves 97-99% of abortions to deal with.

"Rape and incest" exceptions were in most of the state laws outlawing abortion before 1973. Return America to that much lower level of child killing, reduced by some 98%, and the prolife movement will reduce in proportion. That's why "rape and incest" isn't the issue. It's only used as an excuse to justify, or take attention away from, the other 97-99%.

I'm not saying when America returns to pre-1973 levels, there will no longer be people like me saying it's still murder. But even people like me will find our energies diverted to other issues, the closer the terror of abortion drops to like levels with them.

For the record, no one alleged Don sent out anthrax threats. Would you really like Don charged with the federal crime of saying he prefers live babies to live abortionists, if he has to choose? (Which is about all he said.) Or do you like living in a nation of free speech? Since there are no federal crimes against speech, yet, would you prefer that charges be entered against Don before, or after, such laws are created? Or do you prefer a nation where people are not charged for actions which are against no laws?

You say there are "types" you "can't stand"? But Matthew 5:48 urges us to love even enemies. If you harden your heart against them, be careful lest your hardening spread to the point it does not even trouble you to contemplate slain babies.

"Thou Shalt Not Kill*"

Subject: Requset for information

Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001

From: "Trevor Johnson" <tljohnson15@hotmail.com

To: praisejesus@armyofgod.com

I happen to be reading your web-page and I would like some information. As a christian I do not believe in killing anyone for any reason whatsoever. With that in mind, how do you justify killing, or advocating violence against a doctor or anyone who performs abortions? By killing that person aren't you guilty of the same things..e.g murder, that you are opposing? Please advise. Trevor Johnson

Uncle Ed. Sez:

Literally? Then you are an absolute pacifist? Meaning we shouldn't have entered World War II, self defense is a sin, we should not intervene if we happen upon a woman being raped or children being shot by a sniper, and if the Chinese invade we should offer no resistance?

I've read about such people. I just want to be sure, before I continue a discussion, that this is really, literally, what you mean; because in order to offer a response with any hope of meaning anything to you, I would have to proceed differently according to your answer. (I was once an almost-absolute pacifist.)

"Threat*"

Subject: THE DEVIL SHALL OVER RULE!!!

Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001

From: "shane smith" <Hell_Razr666@hotmail.com

To: <Glory2Jesus@ArmyofGod.com

Uncle Ed. Sez: After all this time, you would think the Devil would get a clue.

"Threat*"

Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 21:13:37 -0800

From: barbara@starstream.net (Pusheck, Barbara)

To: <Glory2Jesus@ArmyofGod.com

I heard a rumor that you were going to be shot in the head in the name of God.

Uncle Ed. Sez: Fortunately "man proposes, But God disposes". (That, by the way, isn't a Scripture; but see Isaiah 10:12-15)

"Why Hate*" "Blame* the Parents"

Subject: (no subject)

Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2001 00:07:45 EST

From: TaqGuadalajara1@aol.com

To: Glory2Jesus@armyofgod.com

WHY DO YOU GUYS HATE ABORTIONIST IT'S NOT THERE FAULT ITS THE PARENTS FAULT WHO WANTS TO KILL THE BABY FROM: A SMALL CHILD THAT SAW YOU GUYS TRYING TO KILL ABORTINISTS

Uncle Ed. Sez:

If you are really a small child, I can see where you would blame parents more than abortionists. You have already been taught not to trust strangers, because strangers may want to kill you; so it is not news to learn about abortionists, whose career is to kill very small babies.

But parents! If not even parents can be trusted to love you enough to at least let you live, what security can there be for any child?! No wonder you want the nation's attention focused on parents!

If your parents try to kill you, and we are able to stop your parents, that will not mean we don't love your parents too! Try to understand that. There is no connection between wanting to stop abortionists, and hate. But you never saw "us" trying to kill anybody. All you saw was talk. All Don said was that if the nation forces us to choose between the life of one abortionist or the thousands of lives of all the children he wants to kill, Don would prefer it is the thousands of children who would be allowed to live. Isn't that what you would prefer? (The transcript of Don's statements is in this section.)

For your sake, I want to assure you that God protects even those whom parents will not. God allows tragedies, and tragedy may strike your life too. But learn to trust God, who will walk through it with you.

"Threat*"

Subject: Make sure you remember me...when your God kills you.

Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001

From: "Mad Hatter" <mad_hatter@petitmorte.net>

To: <Glory2Jesus@ArmyofGod.com>

God does not play dice with the universe; He plays an ineffable game of His own devising, which might be compared, from the perspective of any of the other players, to being involved in an obscure and complex version of poker in a pitch-dark room, with blank cards for infinite stakes, with a Dealer who won't tell you the rules, and who smiles all the time. `, )

-Mad Hatterc "I'll give you power if you kill your friends." mhm _ x _

Insanity Now! http://www.petitmorte.net/insanity_now/

"Threat*" "Strategy*"

Subject: just a reminder

Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001

From: NiGhtMaRe@epictournies.cjb.net

To: glory2jesus@armyofgod.com

you are one sick and depraved excuse for a human being and you cant even make a webpage... your site is counterproductive to the nation, it is cyber terrorism, and is therefore a target...you might want to beef up your directory security, you bin laden wanna be this is not a threat, only a warning...

=P ~tHe NIghTmARe

Uncle Ed. Sez:

You bring up a very interesting point. How is it possible that Don and I are still online, though our knowledge of website security is practically nonexistent compared with that of our enemies, the most vindictive, bitter, murderous, and wealthy enemies anyone could have?

Could it possibly be that God can still outsmart even the smartest crook today, and that we can still trust God? Maybe, in that case, our "directory security" is already incapable of improvement.

Psalm 17:7 Shew thy marvellous lovingkindness, O thou that savest by thy right hand them which put their trust in thee from those that rise up against them. 8 Keep me as the apple of the eye, hide me under the shadow of thy wings, 9 From the wicked that oppress me, from my deadly enemies, who compass me about. 10 They are inclosed in their own fat: with their mouth they speak proudly. 11 They have now compassed us in our steps: they have set their eyes bowing down to the earth; 12 Like as a lion that is greedy of his prey, and as it were a young lion lurking in secret places. 13 Arise, O LORD, disappoint him, cast him down: deliver my soul from the wicked, which is thy sword:

I do not mean to presume upon God's protection. Matthew 4:6-7. God's people suffer persecution, amidst the wonderful stories of miraculous deliverance from it. The one thing anyone can trust, who trusts the Lord, is that God will provide all the means, and supplies, and strength and health, and protection necessary, to enable him to complete whatever it is that God sent him to do on the earth.

(Later a virus wiped my hard drive clean. In fact, the virus attacked the directory of my computer: the computer could not find the "C:\" drive.

"Live by the Sword*" "Thou shalt not Kill*" "Strategy*"

Subject: lol

Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001

From: JGodbout13@cs.com

To: PraiseJesus@armyofgod.com

YOU ARE GOING TO HELL MURDERER YOU MAY NOT HAVE PULLED TRIGGER BUT YOU INSPIRED MURDER IN PEOPLE YOU ARE AND ABORTINIST OF HUMANTITY YOU INSULT THE CHRISTIAN FAITH WITH YOUR CRAZY RANTS JESUS IS A GOD OF LOVE AND FORGIVENESS HE HELPS THOSE WHO DONT UNDERSTAND HE DOESNT SHOOT OR BOMB THEM HAVE YOU TRIED REACHING OUT TO THESE PEOPLE INSTEAD OF KILLING THEM ONE DAY YOUR LIFE MAY BE THREATENED YOU LIVE BY THE SWORD YOU DIE BY THE SWORD YOU ARE NUTS I FEEL BAD FOR YOU AND WILL PRAY FOR YOU THIS IS NOT YOUR JOB TO JUDGE PEOPLE BE IN THE WORLD BUT NOT OF IT.............

"Better to be aborted than born*"

Subject: Lol

Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001

From: JGodbout13@cs.com

To: Glory2Jesus@armyofgod.com

Please do respond I would love to here your rebuttle as to my last email. I notice that your site is still up still even after my eye opening email. I wonder about death, and life often and sometimes wish I had been aborted simply to not be bothered by these and many other issues. Believers in God should not think of death as a negative thing these babys get to join The Almighty in heaven just a bit earlier is that so bad? Is heaven and being in the precence of God that bad. Every man stands before God would you like God to look at your life as one who tried to help these sick people (the abortinists) or one who harmed them, and inspired even more violence. Please I ask you change your perspective, i am not asking you to be pro-choice in any way shape or form but since we are all God children and we are all sinners we need each others help just as these people do. They simply need to be pointed in the right direction just

Uncle Ed. Sez: Your two emails, side by side, are an absolute revelation to me. The first, enhanced by the caps, lack of punctuation, and rapid-fire, sound-bite insults, make it sound like you are strung out on drugs and probably too incoherent to make much sense of any response, and certainly not interested in a response. Your second seems like a desperate cry for help.

First let me respond to your specific points.

After the announcement that Don (and probably myself) are going to Hell, for inciting others to murder, making us "abortionists of humanity", an insult to Christianity, you say God loves and forgives. Well of course, but do you think that's all God does? How much of the Bible have you read? You can't have read very much without happening across the concept of "judgment" and "wrath".

Here's a verse where Jesus attempts to restore the same balance in the Church then that seems needed now: where all Christians appear to really be sure of is how to pay their tithes, but they should remember that God also wants us to fill our minds with three things: judgment, mercy, and faith.

Matthew 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

Don emphasizes judgment, to compensate for that being the weakest of the three in church consciousness today. Churches today are fairly big on mercy, although where there is no consciousness of judgment, mercy has little to offer.

I doubt if you can imagine how much Don has "reached out" to the people he now reaches mainly by internet. When he was younger, he spent many years as a "street preacher" in New York City, giving entire evangelistic services with literature tables and the whole works. He met his wife there, and later moved to New Jersey where he continued a vigorous prolife ministry at abortion centers.

If you want to admonish Christians about Jesus' nature, you really ought to cite Scripture. You say Jesus doesn't shoot or bomb abortionists. Well of course He didn't when we could see Him because back then there were neither guns nor bombs nor abortionists. (And we think we have made progress!) Today we can't see what He does, so your point is entirely speculative. You don't know what role He has played in abortion center destruction. Do you remember the great earthquake in San Francisco several years ago? It was in the news that its epicenter contained one of the top three porn producers, and an abortion center. When Shelley Shannon burned several abortion centers, she prayed a lot. She reports a few miracles of answered prayer that helped her.

As I ponder from Scripture what Jesus might have done, my mind flits over his overturning of the money tables. That strikes me as the technological equivalent of burning an abortion center. He physically prevented them from continuing their wicked trade; and maybe I just don't understand the magnitude of the evil Jesus perceived, but it strikes me that abortion is a far greater evil than changing money on Temple property.

Your point about living by the sword is addressed elsewhere in these articles. I will do my best to arrange them so it is easy for you to find.

Judge*

Not our job to judge people in the world? Is it, then, only yours? Think about it. Think about what you are doing. In what sense is Don judging, that you are not?

The only sensible solution is to acknowledge that Christians do have a responsibility to discern, to warn, and to witness. (See my general statement on judging.) It is not, per se, a fault for Don to judge you, or for you to judge him; the danger of a fault is in reaching a judgment contrary to God's judgment. But even this is not a great fault, if we can stay in communication with each other until we approach consensus with each other and God.

Born*

Now let me address your second email. You label your first email as "eye opening", and express surprise that Don's site survived it. I take that as humor meant to take the edge off your first email, and I appreciate it. Then you reveal that you wish you had been aborted! You express jealousy of aborted babies who get to go to Heaven without all the sorrow you have experienced!

There is a little leap of logic next, but the missing step which is implied is that you think abortionists perform a wonderful service by giving these 50 million babies the "gift" you never had, the "gift" of oblivion from physical existence! It appears to be from that perspective that you long for these kind abortionists to be helped rather than harmed.

Your final point is that abortionists need to be pointed in the right direction and they will be OK. But you see, stating the truth about the seriousness of abortion -- that it is so serious, that it even justifies stopping it -- seems to us the most effective way to break through the apathetic fog that blinds abortionists and their supporters. Proclaiming the full seriousness of sin has always seemed the work of God's prophets throughout the Bible.

I wish I could just "mind meld" with you the way the fictitious Spock does, to transmit to you, in an instant, the full appreciation for life on earth which I have acquired from Scripture and living with God. Your letter has made me decide to put my manuscript of a book I have half finished on my website. I was holding off because of all I have written, this holds promise of being a best seller, which might be compromised by prepublication on the Web. But this book provides all the answers you are craving, I am convinced, and maybe others need it too, now, before it can be made available commercially.

It is called "The Angel Diaries". It has a humorous plot, the diaries of "Justinus", an angel, who dropped his diary into the Grand Canyon during Noah's Flood, which was unearthed by archeologists only recently. But through that literary device I am able to explain, in simple and humorous language, some of the most profound mysteries of creation, and the purpose of life, and the nature of consciousness, sin, Hell, and what it was like for God before He created other souls, that I have ever imagined. As I write this to you I'm not exactly sure what file name I will give it, but just look a little on my site and you should find it soon.

Meanwhile let me just drop a couple of clues to the meaning of life on earth.

Ecclesiastes 2:24 says "there is nothing better for a man, than that he should eat, and drink, and enjoy the good of, his labor." (I added that last comma, but it is not inaccurate since Hebrew has no commas and all punctuation must be "supplied"; and I think it is what Solomon meant.) Work, in other words, is the purpose of life. Intriguing, since we thought work was the curse God gave Adam in Genesis 3 for his disobedience! Turns out work was kind of a going away present from Eden!

Then in Luke 12 we learn that the curse of Eden is reversed if, instead of disobeying God as Adam did, we "seek first the Kingdom of Heaven". If we do, then "all these things shall be added to you" which Adam was told he would have to work for. Jesus said DON'T work for your food, etc! Work for God and He will provide your needs just as He initially provided for Adam until he disobeyed!

Another clue is Matthew 25 where the reward for doing our work is even MORE work! We double our talents as God requires and for every talent we have here, we must be responsible for an entire city in Heaven! Meanwhile, the penalty for not working, for not doubling our talents, is, according to the parable, Hell.

The very work which weighs you down, the difficulty, the challenges which seem so "unheavenly" to you, turn out to be your ticket to paradise! Of course, more problems than you can imagine ever overcoming, combined with doubt that makes you assume you never will, may be the essence of Hell. So you have a great choice: believe Jesus' awesome promises to answer prayer, and work your tail off, and taste victory, and rejoice; or not try, and fail, and be absolutely miserable and alone.

John 16:23 And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you. 24 Hitherto have ye asked nothing in my name: ask, and ye shall receive, that your joy may be full.

If all this seems too much to believe, the load too heavy to bear, you are in good company. The fact that you have thoughts that might lead to suicide, but for your sense of responsibility, does not mean you are not righteous, or "saved". Job had such thoughts, Job 3, yet God regarded him as one of the three holiest men of antiquity! (Ezekiel 4:14, 20). And Job 2:10 and 42:7 say the words of Job, including his words when he wished he had been aborted, were all true!

But Job's sorrow was given him for his own happiness: it delivered him of the paranoia he suffered previously, 3:25. The experience led to satisfaction of the deepest desire of his heart: to hear from God, Job 33:14-30, chapters 38-41. When it was God's time for Job to die, he died the happiest of men!

Jeremiah felt the same way. He literally wished he had been aborted. He wished his mother's womb had been his grave!

Jeremiah 20:14 Yet I curse the day I was born! May the day of my birth not be blessed. 15 I curse the messenger who told my father, "Good news -- you have a son!" 16 Let him be destroyed like the cities of old that the Lord overthrew without mercy. Terrify him all day long with battle shouts, 17 for he did not kill me at birth. Oh, that I had died in my mother's womb, that her body had been my grave! 18 Why was I ever born? My entire life has been filled with trouble, sorrow, and shame. (New Living Translation)

But the significant thing about Jeremiah feeling that way is that Jeremiah 1:5 makes perfectly clear that the work Jeremiah did as an adult, was the same work God created him to do.

Jeremiah says he wishes he were LITERALLY aborted! Yet it is Jeremiah's fulfilling of God's purpose which led to sorrows great enough to make him wish he were aborted. What clearer evidence can we have that God does not desire abortion even when birth leads to a life which a man regrets?

After Jeremiah's complaint, God strengthened him with promises for the future. He may not have been happy when he died; seems like it was him that was sawn in two; but reading Jeremiah reveals a heart for his nation, not for himself; his own happiness obviously meant far less to him than the well being and safety, physically and spiritually, of his nation. From that perspective, Jeremiah died a very fulfilled man, having had a profoundly positive effect on the people he loved. God had shown him, through the Time Machine of divine revelation, the future of all the nations which his words had influenced.

Other righteous men, while not wishing to have never lived, were ready to die before God's time. Jonah had an attitude. God had sent him to the barbaric, ruthless Assyrians, and Jonah was upset that they actually listened to him and repented, which meant that now Jonah would miss the satisfaction of watching God destroy them! This broke Jonah up so bad that he actually told God,

Jonah 4:3 Therefore now, O LORD, take, I beseech thee, my life from me; for it is better for me to die than to live.

Moses was just exhausted. The greatest, most dramatic miracles of all human history weren't enough to satisfy these people. Water out of rocks, manna, a bread-like substance, falling like dew upon the grass; no, the people wanted more. They weren't into being vegetarian. They wanted meat. They wanted sizzling steaks. They wanted McDonald's. That was it for Moses. He was ready to throw in the towell. He told God,

Numbers 11:14 I am not able to bear all this people alone, because it is too heavy for me. 15 And if thou deal thus with me, kill me, I pray thee, out of hand, if I have found favour in thy sight; and let me not see my wretchedness.

God's answer was to annoint 70 men with divine power and wisdom to help Moses rule the nation. Just what Moses needed. Moses went on to establish laws which became the model for the world; despite the misunderstanding people have today that the "Old testament is no longer in effect", just because the examples given in them don't fit today's technology, the principles contained in Moses' laws are the basis for most American law to this day. Moses died at 120 years old while gazing upon the Promised Land.

Paul almost said he wished he were dead. He made the distinction between what would make him happiest personally, and what would make his soul happiest considering that others' happiness was more important to him than his own.

Philippians 1:21 For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain. 22 But if I live in the flesh, this is the fruit of my labour: yet what I shall choose I wot not. 23 For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better: 24 Nevertheless to abide in the flesh is more needful for you. 25 And having this confidence, I know that I shall abide and continue with you all for your furtherance and joy of faith; 26 That your rejoicing may be more abundant in Jesus Christ for me by my coming to you again.

The fact is that love lifts our burdens. Love means wanting others to benefit, even at our own expense. The experience of love suggests our souls may not actually be so tied to our physical bodies as many suppose, but rather our souls behave as if they were some greater dimension, receiving their greatest joy not when they can bless their "own" bodies, but when they can bless the souls of others.

Job 36:20 Desire not the night, when people are cut off in their place.

It may be that your own sorrows, rather than proving you have fallen away from God, may indicate you are about to receive those things, the lack of which so saddens you. Have you ever thought about the value of hunger? Had God created no hunger, we would not eat. We need to eat. So God created hunger. Sounds pretty obvious, but why shouldn't that also apply to sorrow? Isn't sorrow only the craving for what we need, which we would never seek without the craving?

Proverbs 13:12 Hope deferred maketh the heart sick: but when the desire cometh, it is a tree of life.

Matthew 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

Thanks for writing! God bless you; thanks for wanting to fill your void! Look over my website, and write again sometime.

JGodbout13@cs.com 12/10/01

Lol your email was great I really enjoyed the part about your, what what was the word you used in your last email "speculation" that I am crying out for help or strung out on drugs, that is classic. I will think of that an qoute that many times in this life friend. But first off I want you to read this email i sent to you first....

com

"Please do respond I would love to here your rebuttle as to my last email. I notice that your site is still up still even after my eye opening email. I wonder about death, and life often and sometimes wish I had been aborted simply to not be bothered by these and many other issues. Believers in God should not think of death as a negative thing these babys get to join The Almighty in heaven just a bit earlier is that so bad? Is heaven and being in the precence of God that bad. Every man stands before God would you like God to look at your life as one who tried to help these sick people (the abortinists) or one who harmed them, and inspired even more violence. Please I ask you change your perspective, i am not asking you to be pro-choice in any way shape or form but since we are all God children and we are all sinners we need each others help just as these people do. They simply need to be pointed in the right direction just"

Nowhere in this email do I even begin to tell you that you, or Rev. Spitz are going to hell.

[Ed: Quote from the first email, above: "YOU ARE GOING TO HELL MURDERER YOU MAY NOT HAVE PULLED TRIGGER BUT YOU INSPIRED MURDER IN PEOPLE YOU ARE AND ABORTINIST OF HUMANTITY YOU INSULT THE CHRISTIAN FAITH WITH YOUR CRAZY RANTS...]

I merly say we are all sinners who need to help one another. Is that untrue I will qoute scipture to reenforce that if you make me. I feel that most christian know belive, and practice that being that it is one of the basis' of the christian faith.

You seem like an intelgent man, insults and diffrence of opion aside. My point about the baby being murdered was never intended to be interprted as a gift or service to them. I only mean that death should not be thought of as negative, it is a gift from God to die and enter heaven, I feel your inspirtion to "save" these babys is really a deep seeded yearning to insure your place in heaven. Which is natural I have my own yearning's and desires to insure my place there as well.

Uncle Ed. Sez: Though this statement is reassuring, for the sake of other readers I want to make the truth a bit more clear. You see, almost 20 years ago my teenage stepson had been speculating along these lines, with his mother my wife, without my knowledge, and finally one day he took my grandfather's shotgun which I had never fired myself, went out into our back yard, and put a slug through his heart and into his neck.

I came home minutes after that. Miraculously, he lived another hour after that! He repeated, over and over again, the same prayer: "Lord Jesus, forgive me, for I have sinned. In the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost." He died in surgery while I prayed in the hallway. So I know unclear thinking on these points can have tragic consequences.

Death can, indeed, be wonderful; in its time. (Ecc 3:1-8.) But before its time, we call it an "untimely death". Sleep is wonderful, too; but does that mean you would prefer to always sleep? Life on earth is wonderful. God gave it as a wonderful gift.

Although I anticipate Heaven, I do not live so as to earn it. Not only do I not think I can ever earn it, Eph 2:8, but it's within us that the Kingdom of Heaven dwells, Luke 17:21. I can't tell you precisely what this means, but Eccl 2:24 says something similar, that there "is nothing better for a man" than the fulfillment available in his work here on earth. Not even Heaven, the verse implies. Not even Heaven is better than the work that fills our lives with meaning, right here on earth.

I anticipate a wonderful relationship with God in Heaven, but there is something about our relationship with God, as He works side by side with us, as we accomplish impossible things together, we learning about His character by seeing how He works and how He answers us, that I can't imagine will be "better" in Heaven.

Another analogy is growing up. Every child wishes he were an adult, while elderly adults wish they were children again. But does any adult wish he were never a child? The opposite is in our vocabulary: it is perceived by our society as a tragedy when the pressures of adulthood come too early upon a child. We call it "lost childhood".

Perhaps this is an analogy of the tragedy of an unborn child sent too early to Heaven. (If, indeed, as we would like to believe, the souls of unborn babies all go to Heaven.)

What you and Rev Spitz are doing I admire in a way, I dont agree with your methods but I am pro-life. I never dared to say Jesus "would or would not bomb abortion" clinics, only that we as "petty" humans have no place to chose right and wrong we failed that already in eden.

Uncle Ed. Sez: Joshua 24:15 is the popular quote about choosing. Hebrews 11 is the "Faith Hall of Fame", that list of Heroes of the Faith throughout the Old Testament. Have you noticed God's measure of faith is not what anyone professes among friends, but by what they do, that usually opposes tyrannical government?

That is why we are in this mess to begin with. I feel based on scirpture I have read and interprted that are "mission" here is to try are best to come to terms with the fact that we are sinners and all sin is equal in Gods eyes (ast least according to scipture) and we have an obligation to point people in the right direction. That does not mean that we shoudl ever scare humilate or harm people (now thius is only my opinoin, that christ has tyaught us agaist these messures).

Uncle Ed. Sez: Jesus Himself scared, humiliated, and harmed people. Just one example each:

John 5:14 Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee.

Matthew 23:15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves. (Jesus continues through the whole chapter like that!)

John 2:15 And when he had made a scourge of small cords, he drove them all out of the temple, and the sheep, and the oxen; and poured out the changers' money, and overthrew the tables;

Have you thought about why tyrants suppress the Bible as if it were their greatest, most powerful enemy?

I am a realist and know that we cant not just sit down and talk to abortionist and expect them to change there ways. But these people are sick and need our help, a life is a life you cherish life, wereas I only care about being in heaven with God becasue I feel this life is simply a brief "test". Killing and threating to me is wrong for them to do, just as it is wrong for you to do, or inspire in the hearts of people. I apoligize for my lack of spelling and grammaticl apptitude but I am extremly busy with school...

Uncle Ed. Sez: Now that you mention spelling, one of my big concerns as a legislative candidate, not to mention just as a citizen, is the emphasis on sloppiness in English instruction. Today children are taught to do "rough drafts". I guess one of the earliest names for this category of instruction is "whole language". Children are actually encouraged to turn in a "rough draft" which stumbles, grammatically and in its spelling, towards a halfway discernible "idea". Later the child is expected to "finish" it. Spelling is not marked down, in the rough drafts.

Well, I understand rough drafts. But the only difference, for me, between a rough draft and a finished product is the number of times I proof read it for errors. My very first time through, I correct every error I see. This is the way writing was taught when I was in school. To this day, it is the only logical goal of anyone who cares about their writing.

At least your ideas are clear, so your grammar isn't bad. And at least you have learned phonics well, because most of your mispellings are at least phonetically spelled. Let me just urge you, in your schooling, to go beyond the lax goals of your teachers, if indeed it is from your teachers you derive the idea that your spelling is acceptible. Let me urge you to strive for perfection in all you do.

In fact, the Bible verse oft quoted which urges this striving after perfection gives, for its reason, a point very relevant to the gift which Life on Earth is:

Ecclesiastes 9:10 Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.

However, I want you to know that were I to judge you for your spelling, I would weigh, against your spelling, your courtesy, humility to the point of acknowledging your weaknesses, and respectfulness, which are worth far more than mere spelling, and are particularly refreshing to me as I slog through this mass of mail. (Although don't think I am complaining! I've tried for years to interact with abortionists directly but they aren't dialoguers!)

...and let me also aploiugze for my last email that was in caps please forgive me it was only sarcasm i wish i had some witty response to why i wrote the letter or any "valid" reason as you siuggested that feeling that it may not be taken seriously but I do not. I aprestiate you r patients in dealig with peoples "hate mail" and responding to them but let me clearify my position briefly.

Abortion= is wrong, it is murder people die

Abortinist=are sinners, not worthy to recieve god

Abortinist Doctors=sinners as well

You=sinners

Me=sinners

We are all sinners who mus repent to Jesus we dont deserve it but he loves us and will help us, along with his forgiveness come living a life in christ, which yes I undertstand an abortiontist does not do and certainly not a doctor. But remmber Saul he killed many, but saw a bright light in the desert and changed and became a great christian. Who are we to say oe of these doctor that are "worth" stopping (i say stopping as refrence to killing although I have no actualy herd you say killing of abortion doctors is right or wrong) is not in Gods plan somehow, or just doesn;t need a "friend" to open his arms to point him in the right direction this is what i feel for these people the sympathy that they dont realize what they are doing as bad, should pray for them to be forgiven to find christ not there smite or death. Kepp in mind that this is only how i feel and have intrepted christianity, and the bible and yes if you make me i will send you scipture, but I dont feel you are an idiot by any means and have read alot of sciputre.

At any rate i am late for my finals so goodbye i am looking forward to your reply

John Godbout

God Bless be safe

Uncle Ed. Sez: This is a point I have heard raised years ago but this is only the second time I've heard it in this batch of emails, and the other time the point was less clearly stated: that by killing an abortionist, we deprive that man of later repenting.

My answer there: "Do you think God cannot squeeze enough time for an eternal choice into a man's last moment? Have you read about Ananias and Sapphira in Acts 3? Can it ever be wrong to obey God?"

My experience with my stepson has proved to me that God knows how to give every man opportunity to repent, even in the last moment of life. In his case, the Polk County medical examiner (Dr. Wooters) told our family the shotgun pellets tore through 3/4 of his heart on his way to his neck! He should have died instantly! Instead God let him live another hour, that he might pray for forgiveness. He committed suicide, but how can I doubt he is waiting for me in Heaven?!

The issue should not be "what if we take away a man's chance to repent?" About this we can only speculate. Although I trust God, in every case, to protect every soul's opportunity to freely choose Heaven or Hell. Our issue should be "What does God command us to do?"

God has been known to command people to go to war, and to execute criminals, and in Proverbs 24:10-12, to deliver those being led away to slaughter. God never expressed second thoughts, that I know of, whether our obeying Him might limit His ability to work with Hearts to bring souls Home. Even though God is not willing that ANY should be lost! John 17:12

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Rather than speculate whether obeying God might prevent Him from saving souls, let us fear lest our disobedience prevents Him from saving souls. Indeed, this is the very concern God expresses frequently for the Capital Punishment He commands:

Deuteronomy 19:20 And those which remain shall hear, and fear, and shall henceforth commit no more any such evil among you. 21 And thine eye shall not pity; but life shall go for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot. (In other words, the punishment shall be proportionate to the injury which the crime caused.)

What criminal will commit his crime if he KNOWS he will be caught, and that his punishment will be just as bad as the harm he is about to cause? God's strategy to reduce crime is for justice to be swift, sure (you can count on it), and proportionate. In a society which does not commit crime because justice is working, fewer souls will be lured to Hell by a life of crime.

But we in our pompous self righteous, imagining we know better than God how to manage justice, make our courts slow, expensive, full of hypocrisy, and "merciful" in that we invent life in jail as an alternative to physical punishment. This denomination of "mercy" results in high crime rates, but at least we are better than God, and grateful all those Laws of God are "out of date".

A Biblical example of how the witness of a proportionate, swift punishment leads even the accused to repentance is found in...

Judges 1:6 But Adonibezek [the king] fled; and they [the armies of Israel] pursued after him, and caught him, and cut off his thumbs and his great toes. 7 And Adonibezek said, Threescore and ten kings, having their thumbs and their great toes cut off, [by me] gathered their meat under my table: [died on my private property] as I have done, so God hath requited [repaid] me. And they brought him to Jerusalem, and there he died.

"Do not Judge*", "There must be another Strategy*", "What Verses* in the Bible justify what you are doing?"

Subject: Praise Jesus for he is my Saviour

Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001

From: Leslie Huggins <allady911@yahoo.com>

To: PraiseJesus@ArmyofGod.com

Praise Jesus....I was saved 12 years ago...I do not believe in abortion but, what I do believe is God will take care of those who do...but, one thing, I think what you are doing is no better or going to get you into Heaven by killing those people....I work on an ambulance in Birmingham, Alabama and was on the way to a hospital when the bomb went off at the All Women's Health Clinic. I was only just a few streets over...my family would have never forgave the terrorist if I would have been killed in that horrendus act...I had no idea that the clinic which I pass by everyday performed abortions. I believe that there are other ways to deal with this besides more violence. I fear for my life everytime I pass by that office and for the lives of innocent victims, the students that go to UAB, the people that eat at the restaurant....You are no different than those who kill innocent children if you do not care.

I read no place in the bible that says it is ok to do what you do.

I do believe that we all have to answer for what we do when we get to the gates of Heaven, noone is perfect and you are going to have to answer for these sins...no more killing...no more violence...nothing is ever going to change this way. I am paid to save lives but, I am in fear that one day due to a bomb, when I am close to a doctor's clinic, that I will lose mine because you saw no other way to peacefully resolve this...my family worries...but, if I die because of what some thoughtless severe activist did..then God have mercy on their souls...You can't kill the world or you will kill the children of Christ...including, me or maybe a family member, friend..or someone that I did not even know that has just as much of a right to live as an unborn child. Do you care? Have you thought about all of these things..nothing justifies all of these killings. NO killings.

Uncle Ed. Sez:

"Do Not Judge*"

Where does this idea come from, that "God will take care of those who _____________"? Fill in the blank with any perversion you like. Is that in the Bible somewhere? Where? How far do you apply this doctrine? Do you apply it to Islamic terrorists? Should we do nothing and just wait for God to do everything for us? If the neighborhood bullies beat up our kids, how about then? Do we wait for God to take care of it for us?

Is this another way of expressing Absolute Pacifism, that idea that military defense is evil; we should just let our enemies invade anytime they like and we will just shame them with our love and good nature? That if you find your wife being raped you should let the man alone rather than injure him, and what tragedy should he die as a result of your rescue?

"Another Strategy*"

Yes, there are other ways to deal with abortion besides violence. Like voters with principles could start taking their votes seriously, and voting according to principle, instead of voting for more and more politicians committed to murdering children. I am seriously working for that very miraculous result. But until that result is achieved, I am ignorant of any more effective way to save babies' lives, than to destroy an abortion center, or an abortionist. If you have some other effective strategies, why don't you share them? Millions of prolifers are waiting for your solution.

The Risk to Emergency Personnel

You say you care about a handful of adult lives at risk. You say you live in constant fear. Trust God, commit your heart to Him, and He will protect you as surely from misguided Christians as from any evil criminal. He will insure that nothing happens to you which He cannot use for good.

You haven't said, though, that you care about the thousands of babies slain, by the most cruel tortures, by each abortionist. How can you care about every injured adult accident victim you see and not care about the thousands of cold-blooded-murder victims you pass by every day?

By the way, have you been called, yet, to an emergency where a mother is dying because a sloppy abortionist perforated her uterous, causing her intestines to leak into her womb? In case you have the stomach for it, or the openness to the facts, "Lime Five", published by Life Dynamics, is FULL of such case histories. I wonder if that would affect your perception of which side of this issue has the barbarians?

"Violence is not a Persuasive Strategy*"

Subject: I 4 I?

Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001

From: "Ken Hawkes" <k.hawkes@worldnet.att.net

To: <Glory2Jesus@ArmyofGod.com

I find you repulsive. Instead of continuing to educate people you encourage violence. Because someone does not share your views you use violence and fear to persuade. You are no different than the Taliban.Believe me when I say that God does not need your help and if " your" God supports (gets off) from this kind of terror he is certainly not the God of mine. KRH

Uncle Ed. Sez: Uh, the Taliban uses violence and fear to persuade? What is it they want us to believe?

Uh, it's because our views are not shared that we act? How about because babies are being killed to the tune of some 50 million in America alone?

Uh, we use violence and fear to persuade? OK, let's set up a scenario. On one side of the scale, you have 20,000 tiny notches on one one's scalpel. On the other side of the scale, you have the owner of the scalpel. Now on which side of the scale, by your reckoning, is the "violence" and "terror" which most repulses you?

Personal Gods

Where did you get the idea that Gods are the personal possessions of humans, so that "your god" and "my god" might be two different gods? I understand the concept of "your doll" and "my doll", or even "your dog" and "my dog". But "your god" and "my god"? Just how many "gods" do you think there are?

I know that pagans used to worship thousands of God; they do in India to this day. They think the various gods all have their areas of specialty. Some make it rain, some make the sun come up and go down, whatever. I didn't know anyone in America still thinks that. In America, I had the impression we had the issue boiled down to whether there is One God, or no God.

But it seems no more absurd to me, to imagine there are many gods, than to declare that "if God turns out to condone a behavior I cannot accept, I refuse to honor Him." It seems to me that if there is indeed God, than anyone who behaves in such a way as to defy His Authority, is in deep, deep doo doo.

Should a dictator seize America, would you act as if he had no authority, just because you don't believe in what he stands for? If you would change your life to accomodate a dictator, how much more should any sane human being find it in his own self interest to change his life to accomodate the Commandments of Almighty God?

It would seem to me the two questions, "How Almighty is God?" and "How Loving is God?" should both stretch human intelligence to answer, but the priority should be on the first: because if God is not Almighty, then the second is irrelevant because He is just one among many pressuring us to modify our behavior; while if God is Almighty, then the second is irrelevant because whatever He says, goes, anyway, and all that's left for us is to make the best of it.

Once we determine He is Almighty, then our remaining job is to try to wrap our finite minds around His version of Love, and be prepared to change our own versions to fit. At present, your version of love is to allow 1.5 million mothers a year to "choose" to murder their very own children, and to vigorously protect the "doctors" who perform the murders, and to passionately condemn anyone who proposes stopping all this mayhem. That, to you, is Love.

I, of course, disagree, but that ought to be the least of your worries. Your only concern ought to be whether God disagrees. But for some reason you not only have no concern about that, but should it come to light that God does disagree, your answer is essentially "Go to Hell, God! If you can't agree with what I think is love, then you certainly aren't MY God!" (if " your" God supports (gets off) from this kind of terror he is certainly not the God of mine.")

This seems a dangerous, crazy, fanatic way to live.

Surely you did not mean this. Surely you are more open, than that, to instruction from God. I just want to encourage you to choose your words carefully, when you are talking about your willingness to let Him remold your heart, so that you do not appear to be more insane than you actually are.

"God will Judge* sinners so we don't have to do anything about them" "Action Is Hate* when it is against an abortionist" "Aborted babies go straight to Heaven*" "Violence is your Strategy* to persuade"

Subject: RE: your website

Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001

From: Franklin Stover <NHer5@netscape.net>

To: Glory2Jesus@armyofgod.com

Dear Folks: this is just one of many opinions on the subject. The difference between you and me, however, is that I don't expect anyone to accept my point of view. You not only expect people to accept your viewpoints, you condone violence to spread your views. The audacity is you claim yourselves to be Christian.

Now briefly, this is what I have to say: if you are Christian, you therefor believe in an afterlife. I've never met a Christian who didn't believe in some form of life after death, followed by God's judgement and so on. Stating the obvious thing here, the world of man is loaded with injustice, cruelties, and everything bad you can think of. But as a Christian, I've always known about God's justice, how he deals with our corrupt world in his own way, and in his own time. While I don't agree with all sorts of things going on around me, I know that, in the Ultimate sense, God will deal with all these matters. And God will do a MUCH BETTER JOB than you or I could possibly do.

Of course, we should strive for a better society, but that also means to obey the law as Jesus would have us do. Getting back to life after death, I believe that not one soul is lost...every one is accounted for, and every soul has a chance for survival in the hereafter. The soul of a fetus can know God's love maybe better than you can possibly imagine.

Lastly, the energy you spend on hating others (abortionists) is energy you are taking out of your spiritual life-force. So, be vigilant about taking care of your own souls. Don't forget to nurture yourselves with the goodness that only God can offer. HAVE FAITH IN GOD'S WAYS. You seem to act in a way that points to insecurity and lack in faith in God's ultimacy. Get beyond the thinking of your very short life. I say this also in light of Sept.11, that we, as a people of God, place all the horrible things of the world in his hands, and to strengthen our families through prayer. I pray too, that your organization lose its vigilante agenda, and return to a more loving concept of God. Thanks

Uncle Ed. Sez:

Violence is a nutty Strategy* of Persuasion!

Where did you get the idea we regard violence as a way to spread views? From something we said? Or did you just assume it? Sure sounds like an unrealistic expectation to me.

Do Not Judge*

Is your philosophy that since God can do everything better than we can, that we should do nothing and stay out of His way? Be careful -- that was precisely the philosophy of the servant with one talent, Matthew 25:24-30, and we know what happened to him.

Abortees go straight to Heaven*

So your point about a "fetus" (baby) is...that since MAYBE "it" can experience God's love better than we, that we should be content to let it die? Beware of letting speculations about the consequences of obeying God become your excuse for not obeying God.

Christians should obey the Law*

"God's ways", you say, should be the object of our faith? Is this concept of yours something to replace obedience to God's commandments? Take a look at Proverbs 24:10-12, and tell me, do you think of God as a "vigilante"? On one hand of the scale we have an abortionist killing some 20,000 souls in his career, in return for lots of money and political power. And not just one such abortionist but hundreds. On the other hand of the scale we have a few desperate attempts to stop 3 or 4 of them. Now on which side of the scale, is it your perception, that Law is being trampled?

"Do not Judge*" "Love, not Hate*" "God's Strategy* is to change hearts, but not to do 'Work'"

Subject: What's going on?

Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001

From: "Jackson Scott" <yaseloque@hotmail.com> To: glory2jesus@armyofgod.com

Dear Reverend,

I was just on your web page and I see a lot of reference to Scripture that quotes God as saying that He will punish and unleash His wrath. I urge you to remember that God, and God only, can unleash His wrath. As servants of Jesus...we are not to do it for Him.

"You have heard it was said, 'You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' But I say to you, LOVE YOUR ENEMIES, and pray for those who persecute you." Matthew 5:44-45

Clearly we are to love our enemies. We have no divine right to kill abortion doctors. Or do you think you are better than they are? Remember that the Bible says,

"For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God." Romans 3:23

We are all sinners. Only God can stop evil in this world and he does so by changing our hearts. We then become agents of God and by love seek to save the lost to stop evil in its tracks.

"For by grace, you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God. Not of works,lest man should boast." Ephesians 2:8-9

We are saved by God's grace through faith in Jesus Christ. Please receive this forgiveness and change direction in your life from killing abortion doctors. Remember that we are also instructed in the Bible to not repay evil for evil.

Trust in the Lord. He will defend the unborn and judge those who did not receive His forgiveness in His due time. Right now...you seem square in the path of His judgment. Forgiveness is available through Jesus Christ, our Lord. Repent come to salvation in Jesus Christ. Let go of the hate.

With Love, A Christian Brother,

JS

Uncle Ed. Sez:

Yes, we are to "Judge*", as "agents of God's wrath"

Please compare your theory that humans cannot be agents of God's wrath with the following:

Romans 13:3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same: 4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.

(Notice the "higher powers" of verse one is plural; which explains why Christians have always been the most law-abiding of all citizens, when the "higher powers" agree, but have always been a thorn in government's side when they do not. Because man's laws conflict with God's laws, Christians are known for obeying the HIGHEST power. But the point is that the created purpose of government is to act as an agent of God's wrath. I don't think our Declaration of Independence contradicts this principle when it speaks of the right of citizens to alter or replace their government when it fails to protect God-given rights. This seems consistent with the next passage.)

Proverbs 24:10 If thou faint in the day of adversity, thy strength is small. 11 If thou forbear to deliver them that are drawn unto death, and those that are ready to be slain; 12 If thou sayest, Behold, we knew it not; doth not he that pondereth the heart consider it? and he that keepeth thy soul, doth not he know it? and shall not he render to every man according to his works?

(Notice the scenario: not deliverence from common thieves, whose actions are in the dark, when we do not expect, so that we have no opportunity to deliver. Likewise, thieves do not have enough power over their victims to "lead" them or "draw them away" to slaughter; they cannot choose the time, manner, and place of death. They must execute on the spot, or not at all. That leaves government, for this to refer to. It is government terror which this verse especially urges us to stop! Or in the case of abortion, government-protected terror. But our point is that humans are being counted on, by God, to act as agents of His -- well, not "wrath" in this case, but "deliverance".)

OK, now it's your turn. I've given you a couple of verses to challenge your theory that humans may never act as agents of God's wrath. Now will you please let me know the Scriptures which support your view?

Love, don't Hate*

Your next points ramble a bit; you talks as if "love your enemies" has something to do with killing abortionists, when you should know God is Love, yet He kills people; there is not necessarily any connection. Nor is thinking oneself better than an abortionist a logical inference; not only are the two unrelated, but one does not normally kill just because one's victim is perceived to be inferior.

You cite 1 Thessalonians 5:15 "See that none render evil for evil unto any man; but ever follow that which is good, both among yourselves, and to all men." The issue, of course, is what action is evil. For example, which strikes you as more evil: murdering 20,000 innocent, defensely babies during the career of a single abortionist, for lots of money and political power, or killing one abortionist so that he cannot kill even one more baby? Which seems more "evil" to you? Perhaps Proverbs 24:10-12 will help you determine.

The Strategy* of "Changing Hearts" requires "Taking a Stand"

Of course "changing hearts" is our mission; but tell me YOUR ideas how to best achieve that change, if you would muzzle efforts to talk about the worst crime of all American history in less serious terms than it merits? How can you change hearts by soft-pedalling abomination? How do you expect to break the spell of apathy by continuing our soothing drone of "love everybody, be nice and polite, don't hurt the terrorists because they are more precious than their victims"?

Be careful that you do not fall under Paul's judgment of the Circumcision Crowd for imposing circumcision on pagan converts, not because it was Biblical, not because it was logical, but for the ulterior motive of escaping persecution.

Galatians 6:12 As many as desire to make a fair shew in the flesh, they constrain you to be circumcised; only lest they should suffer persecution for the cross of Christ. 13 For neither they themselves who are circumcised keep the law; but desire to have you circumcised, that they may glory in your flesh. 14 But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world. 15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature. 16 And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God. 17 From henceforth let no man trouble me: for I bear in my body the marks of the Lord Jesus.

Application: Gal 6:12 these "prolifers" want to condemn those who have effectively stopped abortionists, in order to look good on TV; so that they don't have to be persecuted for Jesus. 13 Not that they are pure pacifists themselves; they justify war, and self defense; they just don't want others defended with the same freedom they would defend themselves, because they like news reporters to love them; don't want to be controversial."

(That's because self defense isn't controversial; the most wicked sinner will defend himself, a fact of life which even tyrants accept because opposing it would be futile. But defending others? That's rare enough for tyrants to target, but worst of all for tyrants, it makes heroes of people who act, not for selfish self interest, but from principle; a habit which, if unchecked, will topple tyranny.)

"Abortionists Love Your Strategy*" "Let God, alone, Judge*"

Subject: pro-choicers love you!

Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001

From: "Spurgat, Steven" <Steven.Spurgat@miramax.com>

To: DavidsStone@hotmail.com, JesusReigns@minister.com

Dear Rev. Spitz, You are doing more now for the pro-choice movement than pro-choicers themselves could ever have done. By supporting the bombings and anthrax scares of abortion clinics and bringing terrorist Clayton Waagner to fame, the public now equates the pro-life movement with Osama Bin Laden. Even our own pro-life president must speak out against you.

There's a phrase for those who think they can do God's work, it's called a "Messiah Complex." I'm not usually a proponent of therapy, but a disorder such as yours needs some serious attention. In the meantime, pro-choicers support the Army of God and your defamation of the pro-life movement. You are God's blessing to the pro-choice movement. Keep up the good work!

Steve

P.S.- Having the word "army" in the same title as the word "God" is as moronic as it is oxymoronic. I'm sure Jesus would agree.

Uncle Ed. Sez:

Effectiveness of Truth as a Strategy*

Since you did not say, and since it is helpful to me in knowing at what level to respond, I must assume you are not a Christian. My clues are (1) your unfamiliarity with military jargon in the Gospels, such as 2 Timothy 2:3-4 and Ephesians 6:12-17, familiar enough throughout Christendom to produce such well known hymns as "Onward Christian Soldiers". And (2) your impression that worldly acclaim of a position is a test of its soundness.

James 4:4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.

Romans 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. 8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

1 Corinthians 1:19 For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent. 20 Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? 21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe. 22 For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom: 23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness; 24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God. 25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men. 26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called: 27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; 28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are: 29 That no flesh should glory in his presence. 30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: 31 That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.

(Apparently the rest of my reply was lost.)

Date: Tue, Dec 4, 2001, 12:55 PM

Dear Forrest Gump, (Dave)

Um. It would be nice if you actually read my message. Your response was only to prove that I am not a Christian which I am quite aware of, Einstein.

My original message is repeated below. My point is that pro-choicers love you fanatics because you make the real pro-lifers with a more legitimate argument look bad.

I find it odd that you note that I am not a Christian, yet go on to quote the Bible. Wouldn't logic tell you that a non-Christian doesn't care what is in the Bible? Perhaps you would like to respond using your own thoughts, if you have any, on how your fanaticism is doing far more for the pro-choice movement than for the pro-life movement. My question is a political one. Whether you like it or not, this is a political issue. If your brain is a mindless Bible Encyclopedia than don't bother replying as I have better things to do.

Uncle Ed. Sez:

No one has ever called me "Einstein" before! You have bestowed upon me such a precious honor that it doesn't even matter to me whether you meant it!

"Prochoicers Love your Strategy*"

I have to wonder, likewise, whether you really mean it when you suggest prochoicers love me. If you know some who do, I wish you could introduce me. I would love to meet them. If the ones I have met love me, they have a strange way of showing it. My first attempts to engage them in discussion was as a political candidate. It never seemed to matter how much patience and graciousness I communicated; they will discuss only with those who agree with them. The rest, they hate. Really hate. I don't mean "hate", as in "warn". I mean as in "hate".

"Hurting the Cause: Uncle Ed.'s Complete Strategy* Revealed!!"

You have incorrectly assumed I am motivated to help the prolife movement. I am motivated to end the murder of babies. The reputation of the prolife movement, among news reporters and those who believe them, matters about as much to me as making a good impression on Satan. Some people are determined not to respond to facts, evidence, logic, or love. There comes a point where you have to cut your losses and seek your votes elsewhere. (Matthew 7:6, for other readers who care about Scripture.) Even God finally gives up on some. (Romans 1:24-26)

Yet I am fully aware of the political dimension of this sin. It isn't my plan to pursue a course which will alienate the majority of voters needed to outlaw it again. Fortunately that is not necessarily what "fanaticism", as you call it, accomplishes. That is, depending on the quality of fanaticism.

Please follow me just a little, as I try to precisely answer your question. In order to do so I need to develop a few points which my not at first seem connected. But I will tie them together.

"Fanaticism", which may be reasonably understood as any really, really out-of-the-mainstream idea which makes most of society really, really uncomfortable, triggers the same strong emotions in people, initially, whether it is full of truth or full of absurdity. Initially, I say. But whether wise or absurd, it always focuses public attention upon itself; in other words, it breaks through the number one barrier, and sin, which afflicts America today: Apathy. The consequence of the attention "fanaticism" attracts is that if it is true, a small number of Americans, their attention upon it, will recognize it and acknowledge it. Their voices will multiply the one voice which first proclaimed it, exponentially, until the point is reached where the masses who do not actually think so much as put their finger to the wind, will notice the shift and make it nearly unanimous.

Not that I go out of my way to sound like a fanatic. I proclaim what I do for another reason, which I must come to just a little later. My point here is that the unpopularity of "fanaticism" is not necessarily, as you assume, a minus. It can be harnessed. The Plan I am about to describe has the promise of harnessing it.

The critical thing is that the "fanatical" proclamation must be just as true, just as precise, just as logical, as a human can get it. Since you do not accept the authority of Scripture as a source and measure of Truth, I may lose you at this point, unless you are curious enough to read how this Plan will attempt to change the world you know.

I must emphasize that it is Truth which this "fanatic" proclamation must contain in order to serve my Plan; not some mere novelty capable of capturing the interest of exponentially growing followers. Hugh Heffner was a fanatic when he began, and pornography proved to have the power to grow like weeds until it has choked our nation. Lies can grow like this, just as well as Truth. Matthew 13:24-30 illustrates this by pondering the "tares" planted by an "enemy" which grow with the "wheat".

But my Plan goes beyond a mere position spread like weeds across America. To work, this seed must be True. It cannot be sin. It cannot be a lie. It cannot be barely rational. It must be irrefutable. Which last point is why I treasure the opportunity to be challenged. I am anxious to see how well my position will make it through the severest of tests. I want to know if it is ready. (I believe even this was Jesus' purpose, in Luke 2:46-49. Also a purpose of 1 Peter 3:15, and Hebrews 10:24-25.) You assume my position utterly fails every test because the news reporters slam dunk it without even looking at it themselves, much less reporting it to others. Not so. All that proves is that my position makes them really, really uncomfortable. You would be right, if they actually reported my position accurately, and THEN refuted it effectively. This is the test that counts. So far they have moved no closer to such action. And that small number of Thinkers, in whom is my hope, notice. They are watching for the same Tests I am.

I work for pure Seed because I want it to nourish; not merely grow green and rob America's soil/soul of its nutrients in the manner of weeds. I am fearful of offering an impure seed which seems wonderful to me but which has terrible flaws I do not discern. Therefore I have zero commitment to my position on anything: my commitment is to that Truth towards which I pray my positions are evolving. My best help in that direction will be the best challenge to my positions.

It is not a problem for my Plan that while I am waiting for True seeds to multiply, weeds multiply beside them. Fortunately there is a Harvester, who will gather the weeds and burn them. (Mat 13:24-30).

You say "There's a phrase for those who think they can do God's work, it's called a 'Messiah Complex.'"

I say "If you already know the work you are doing is not God's, please stay home! Let every man humbly and gratefully seek to lay aside his own work, (Mat 11:28-30) and seek to do God's work! Give no man honor for refusing to even try!" (John 4:34)

There are two reasons My Plan must be God's Plan for it to work the way I desire: (1) only God can purify my seed so that it will truly nourish; and (2) only God can provide the miraculous resources needed for victory.

I think I can start tying this together for you now.

The political problem we face is that there are many decent Americans who either won't bother to vote, or when they do, will vote without discernment, and often in confusion about whether they have a right to vote according to their principles.

You probably think Christians are politically active because you see news stories about Pat Robertson, James Dobson, and D. James Kennedy. Oh, and Jerry Falwell. The fact is they are in the news because they are newsworthy. They are newsworthy because they are rare. Everyday events aren't news. It's the exceptions that are news. The rank and file of Christians are censored by their pastors from even sharing political information with each other on church premises. (Less so in black churches, and white liberal churches.) There are elaborate theologies constructed to ensure that Christians keep their political influence safely cocooned. ("Jesus didn't get involved in politics." "Be ye separate...and touch not the unclean thing.") I wrote a book 10 years ago to address these theologies, "The Gift of 'Governments'", taking the title from 1 Corinthians 12:28. I distributed about 150 copies, broke even financially; I need to get it on the website.

So the Plan is to animate Christians --fewer of whom vote than any other group that I know of -- and all other decent Americans, to reach a condition where, when they learn of a candidate who meets their own standards of decency, they will support them!

Duh! What's so hard about that?

Yet Christians struggling against the political tides know, that as irrational as it may sound, that is not merely "hard". It is a full fledged mountain. (Matthew 21:21-22)

But I have a plan. My plan is to proclaim the seriousness of sin. Especially abortion. Abortion is so serious, that effective steps to stop it are even justified.

Fascinating response such statements receive. The logic is unassailable for anyone who goes around mouthing the truth that "abortion is murder". If it is indeed, then of course, stopping it is justified. Not only justified, but called for, is in Proverbs 24:11-12. Saving a life is even worth the loss of a building. Duh.

Yet while such logic cannot be refuted, it may certainly be resisted. Christians and prolifers can scream at it with sound bites that don't address the logic or much of anything else. Politicians can say this will only hurt the prolife cause to talk like that.

But what I'm counting on is that it is the Truth, and has the support of God, so that even though most people become intensely uncomfortable from it, it wakes up the slumbering decent Americans floating in a fog of apathy, put to sleep by politicians afraid to express just how serious abortion really is because it might offend a reporter, or awaken a peacefully snoring Christian.

My hope is, then, that Christians (and all other decent Americans) will rise and put a stop to abortion and hundreds of lesser tyrannies in our land. That they will use whatever means are effective, but always the least violent of two equally effective approaches. When enough awaken, abortion will be stopped by votes. Before that point, bullets and bombs have proven their effectiveness.

But I have no military talents. I can't even get a bottle rocket to ignite. I once had 30 bullets, a rifle, and a milk jug 30 feet away. The jug finally laid down after about 28 bullets, but I think it just got tired of waiting. My point is that anyone who wants to pursue a military solution will need to find someone besides me to lead them, because I have no such talent. But when someone does stop an abortionist, I will proclaim that is a lesser evil than when a Christian ignorantly votes for a pro-abortionist. To say otherwise is to understate the seriousness of abortion. Abortion is serious. Abortion is murder. Government protection doesn't change the seriousness of murder. Stopping murder is a heroic thing to do. Saving a life is the deed of a hero, even if property is destroyed in the rescue. Life is more valuable than property.

That's about it. That's my plan. State the seriousness of abortion, defend that message with all the logic and love God grants me, invite every possible test, pass 'em all, and wait for God to answer my prayer for Revival across America.

"Scripture Offends"

You may assume that my liberal quoting of Scripture would make Christians comfortable about me. Not so. Your reaction is merely bemusement, wondering what possible logic could motivate me. Their typical reaction is a sermon about how I am just going to turn people away, and I "need to just shut up about Jesus so you can get elected and then you can do some good."

And yet if you have comprehended my plan of breaking the apathy barrier, perhaps you can understand why it cannot be done without Scripture.

Even with perfect logic and philosophy, a Christian cannot recognize the authority of a human opinion without the concurrence of Scripture. Again, they may not like the conclusions of my logic, which demand that people clamber off their fences and stand, which they do not want to do because they will be ridiculed by reporters. That's no fun.

As for my use of Scripture even with nonbelievers, your question about it is so succinctly stated I really admire its majesty of articulation: "I find it odd that you note that I am not a Christian, yet go on to quote the Bible. Wouldn't logic tell you that a non-Christian doesn't care what is in the Bible?"

Yes, logic WOULD tell me just that. Let me explain what else motivates me. (Although at first I would point out that I could only speculate about your status, before you clarified it, so I was merely covering my bases in case you really were a Christian.)

Jesus made an astonishing statement about the power of the mere hearing of Scripture. He told of a poor man who went to Heaven, while the rich man he used to vainly beg from went to Hell. The rich man, in Hell, begged that at least the poor man would return from the dead to warn his relatives. Jesus' answer was that if the relatives would not listen to the warnings of the Old Testament, then their hearts must be way too hard to respond to mere irrefutable evidence! (Luke 16:19-31)

My own experience with the issue confirms this statement, though it still doesn't entirely make sense. I have reviewed with people some of the compelling scientific evidence that the Bible has never been refuted in any detail though no other book has been the target of so many tries; that it contains information its authors could not possibly have known except by the revelation of God; that the agreement of our texts today with the original is confirmed by evidence thousands of times more compelling than for ANY other ancient writing!

And yet it has seemed more compelling than any evidence, when I simply take a verse, misunderstanding of which has turned someone away from God, and release all the common sense and love bound up in it, hidden from the superficial.

I hope that answers your questions, if not to your satisfaction, at least so you will feel they were answered. Now I have one of you: you say you are not a Christian; but you have not said what OTHER measure of right and wrong rules your heart. I guess you have not literally said you think it is wrong to stop abortion with force, but if I may take your tenor of speech as a statement, what standard tells you it is wrong, or that I am wrong, or that anything is wrong?

In other words, if you do not like the language of Scripture, what language do you speak? Maybe I could learn it. Maybe I already know it.

In Jesus' Name (by order of Col 3:17), Dave Leach

"Do Not Judge*", "Thou Shalt Not Kill*", "Love, don't Hate* abortionists" "Adoption*, not Murder" "Education, Forgiveness & Prayer are the right Strategy*"

Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 16:21:02

From: "Mary Masterson" <yram36@hotmail.com>

To: Glory2Jesus@ArmyofGod.com

Who give YOU the right to judge? It says in the bible not to judge people, for that is God's job. Are you now wanting to take the job on? Where are YOU when these children you are "wanting to protect" are when they are 2 years old, being abused and tortured by parents that do not want them? Seems to me you could really be a "hero" by taking them in and loving them instead of committing murder, which by the way is one of the 10 comandments, but I guess that doesn't apply to YOU.

No, the way I see it, you judge, a sin, commit murder, a sin, and in your sick mind, somehow rationalize it your sick mind, that you are pleasing God and doing this all in the name of God.

The woman that choose abortion will have to answer to GOD. They will have to live with their choice every day. You do not preach love, you praise hate and violence. And you wonder why people question your motives. Seems to me they are self serving and NOT, Never will be, IN THE NAME OF GOD. MURDER IS MURDER AND YOU ARE CONDONING IT JUST AS IF YOU HAD PERFERMED THE ABORTION.

Read your bible. The God I know is a loving and forgiving God. You are neither from what you say and write. You prey on peoples ignorance...all in the name of God.

You too will be judged before God and then, you will understand the your actions are not what I beleive, to be what God wants. You want to end abortion, education is the only way to do that, along with prayer. So instead of advocating death and violence, why don't you advocate education, forgiveness and prayer. Seems that those traits would certainly be favorable unto God, not murdering doctors all for a "CAUSE".

Uncle Ed. Sez:

Strategy*

As you can see most of your points, I have already addressed, but you don't give us credit for being "educational"? Don't you think we have helped people think about the seriousness of abortion? If you know what we could say or do that would bring this reality home to more people than we are reaching now, I sure would like to know it!

Or is there some other feature of abortion that you meant we should tell about? Like how harmless it is?

"Forgiveness", unfortunately, cannot come to people before they want it. Before one can want to be forgiven, he must be grieved with something he has done that needs forgiving. While an abortionist maintains there is nothing wrong with abortion, therefore, it is premature to "forgive" him for it. Unless you know some way to define "forgiveness" that I have never heard of.

Prayer. Do you think Don and I could do what we have done, faced the criticism we have faced, and found the motivation, resources, and strength to go on, without prayer? But when you suggest prayer without action is some kind of solution, you are part of the problem. It has even become an idiom in Christendom to say "I'll pray about it" as an excuse for not doing anything about it. "Will you join the church choir?" "I'll pray about it", meaning, "no, that really is one of my better TV nights." "Will you help Senator Smith's campaign? He's against all them abortionists and sodomites your preacher's always after." "I'll pray about it", meaning "I would tell you 'no' now, but that wouldn't insult you as much as if I tell you, by never getting back to you again, that God told me to have nothing to do with you. Then of course it is more polite than telling you 'no' directly."

But if you are committed to action, and that action puts you "against the whole world", it seems, with nothing on your side except God, to the best of your discernment, believe me, you will pray!

"America: obey its Law* or leave it"

"Even God had better obey them, whether He likes them or not"

"Antisocial means not liking abortion laws"

"Killing an abortionist is worse than abortion -- because abortion and abortionisticide offends God equally, while abortionisticide offends only society"

Subject: Hello Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001

From: Paul <paul@parrot.com> Reply-To: paul@parrot.com

To: Glory2Jesus@ArmyofGod.com

Howdy Reverend,

I know that there is no point in writing this, because you have had a lot of time to think about your actions and are committed to terrorism.

However, I would like to inform you that your suggestion that pro-lifers who are against clinic violence are pro-choicers in disguise is an insult to God and your cause.

I am pro-life because I am anti-murder. I don't believe that anyone should have the right to end another life.

We live in a society of laws. Whether God likes the laws or not, they are there. Your decision to scorn these laws makes you antisocial. That's what antisocial means - against society, anti-society. This is the greatest country - the greatest society - on Earth, and this country was founded on laws of freedom. There are laws that give you the right to express your opinions, and there are laws that give doctors the right to go to perform abortions. If you don't like the laws, then you don't belong here.

The insanity that you perpetuate destroys lives just as assuredly as abortion doctors do. Your disrespect for life is just as great an insult to God as abortion is - and unlike abortion, it is also an insult to society. That makes you a terrorist. And as recent events have shown, terrorists are enemies of humanity.

By the time you see the error of your ways, it will be too late. You'll be on the express train to your master suite in Hotel Hell. If you don't believe me, just wait a while. Have a nice trip.

Ashamed of my own first name, Paul

Obey the Law*, whether God likes it or not!

At first I thought you made some serious mistakes in your grammar. I thought you couldn't possibly mean that man's laws command absolute obedience, not subject to any position upon them which God may state. But as I thought about it, you are only expressing popular thinking with greater precision than most would admit.

You say, "We live in a society of laws. Whether God likes the laws or not, they are there. Your decision to scorn these laws makes you antisocial....If you don't like the laws, then you don't belong here."

Now let me take a breath from marvelling about your lack of concern about God, to marvel that dislike of any law should disqualify a man from American citizenship. Then by your morality, if a political candidate says he doesn't like a law, and it should be changed, then your solution would be to deport him? I'm not saying that's an entirely bad concept; just double checking whether that is what you really meant.

If that's not what you meant, please don't say that.

Back to what God thinks of our laws.

You are not alone in assuming what God thinks about American laws is irrelevant; it should not enter the discussion. But that isn't the philosophy that built America, and it isn't the philosophy that will save and preserve America.

John Witherspoon was a signer of the Declaration of Independence, and president of Princeton university. He said "[H]e is the best friend to American liberty, who is most sincere and active in promoting true and undefiled religion, and who sets himself with the greatest firmness to bear down on profanity and immorality of every kind. Whoever is an avowed enemy of God, I scruple not [would not hesitate] to call him an enemy to his country." The Works of the Rev. John Witherspoon (Philadelphia: William W. Woodard, 1802) Vol. III, p. 46.

You've heard of Noah Webster, and his younger cousin Daniel? Noah said "[T]he moral principles and precepts contained in the Scriptures ought to form the basis of all of our civil constitutions and laws. All of the miseries and evils which men suffer from vice, crime, ambition, injustice, oppression, slavery and war, proceed from despising and neglecting the precepts contained in the Bible." (Noah Webster, History of the United States (New Haven: Durrie & Peck, 1832) p. 339.

Dr. Jedediah Morse, "the Father of American Geography", for establishing geography in American school education, was a founding father, and an author of many textbooks. He said "I hold this to be a truth confirmed by experience, and if follows that all efforts made to destroy the foundations of our holy religion ultimately tend to the subversion also of our political freedom and happiness. Whenever the pillars of Christianity shall be overthrown, our present republican forms of government, and all the blessings which flow from them, must fall with them." From his Election Sermon given at Charleston, MA, on April 25, 1799.

Here is Ben Franklin's speech that started the prayer service that broke the deadlock of acrimony paralyzing the Constitutional Convention, enabling the writing of the Constitution we live under today:

"I have lived, Sir, a long time, and the longer I live, the more convincing proofs I see of this truth, that God governs in the affairs of men. And if a a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without his aid? We have been assured, Sir, in the Sacred Writings, that 'except the Lord build the House, they labor in vain that build it.' I firmly believe this; and I also believe that without His concurring aid we shall succeed in this political building no better, than the Builders of Babel: We shall be divided by our partial local interests; our projects will be confounded, and we ourselves shall become a reproach and bye word down to future ages. And what is worse, mankind may hereafter from tis unfortunate instance, despair of establishing governments by human wisdom and leave it to chance, war and conquest.

"I therefore beg leave to move that henceforth prayers imploring the assistance of Heaven, and its blessings on our deliberations be held in this Assembly every morning before we proceed to business, and that one of more of the clergy of this city be requested to officiate in that service."

(Source: James Madison, The Records of the Federal Convention of 1787, Max Farrand, editor (New Haven: Yale University Press, 1911), Vol. I, pp. 450-452, June 28, 1787.)

Here's what the Pennsylvania Supreme Court ruled: "No free government now exists in the world, unless where Christianity is acknowledged, and is the religion of the country." (Source: Pennsylvania Supreme Court, 1824. Updegraph v. Commonwealth; 11 Serg. & R. 393, 406 (Sup.Ct. Penn. 1824).)

Founding Father Benjamin Rush nailed what it is about the Bible that makes it the foundation of freedom: without a higher authority than any man guiding a nation, the opinions of men, of what is right and wrong, will be the nation's highest morality; and even when the opinions of men begin relatively decent, there is nothing stable about opinions. Make Relativism the foundation of America's freedoms, and you make her foundation quicksand. Rush said, "By renouncing the Bible, philosophers swing from their moorings upon all moral subjects. . . . It is the only correct map of the human heart that ever has been published. . . . All systems of religion, morals, and government not founded upon it [the Bible] must perish, and how consoling the thought, it will not only survive the wreck of these systems but the world itself. "The Gates of Hell shall not prevail against it." [Matthew 1:18]

(Source: Benjamin Rush, Letters of Benjamin Rush, L. H. Butterfield, editor (Princeton, NJ: Princeton University Press, 1951), p. 936, to John Adams, January 23, 1807.)

Daniel Webster, Early American Jurist and Senator, warned, "[I]f we and our posterity reject religious instruction and authority, violate the rules of eternal justice, trifle with the injunctions of morality, and recklessly destroy the political constitution which holds us together, no man can tell how sudden a catastrophe may overwhelm us that shall bury all our glory in profound obscurity.

(Source: Daniel Webster, The Writings and Speeches of Daniel Webster (Boston: Little, Brown, & Company, 1903), Vol. XIII, p. 492. From "The Dignity and Importance of History," February 23, 1852.)

Remember the First Amendment? No establishment of any religion? Which everybody knows means Christians shouldn't vote for Christians or that would establish religion? Someone should have told the first U.S. Supreme Court Chief Justice, who thought, "Providence has given to our people the choice of their rulers, and it is the duty as well as the privilege and interest of our Christian nation to select and prefer Christians for their rulers." John Jay, first U.S. Supreme Court Justice, The Correspondence and Public Papers of John Jay, Henry P. Johnston, ed. (New York: G.P. Putnam's sons, 1890), Vol. IV, p. 393, Oct 12, 1816.

Here's a quote popularly attributed to James Madison. Historian David Barton can't confirm he actually said these words, but can easily verify this was how he thought: "We have staked the whole future of American civilization, not upon the power of government, far from it. We have staked the future of all of our political institutions upon the capacity of each and all of us to govern ourselves . . . according to the Ten Commandments of God. -- James Madison (unconfirmed)

"The law given from Sinai was a civil and municipal as well as a moral and religious code; it contained many statutes . . . of universal application-laws essential to the existence of men in society, and most of which have been enacted by every nation which ever professed any code of laws.

(Source: John Quincy Adams, Letters of John Quincy Adams, to His Son, on the Bible and Its Teachings (Auburn: James M. Alden, 1850), p. 61.)

Here is the final verse of our National Anthem, written by Francis Scott Key, based on his experience as a prisoner on a British ship as the British fleet unsuccessfully attacked an American port:

"Blessed with victory and peace,

may the Heav'n-rescued land

Praise the Power that hath made

and preserved us a nation!

Then conquer we must,

when our cause it is just;

And this be our motto:

'In God is our Trust!'

And the star-spangled banner

in triumph shall wave

O'er the land of the free,

and the home of the brave."

There is just one more quote I wish I could find. All I can remember is its gist: "Ask the people who tell you to obey the laws of man, even when they do not conform to the Laws of God, how they will deliver you when God enforces His laws!"

Questions for School: overview of abortion, and of the place of Christianity in government

Subject: church vs. state

Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001

From: Aaroncarter09@aol.com

To: PraiseJesus@armyofgod.com

I am a student in high school and i have an assignment to do. I have to interview people about the following questions so i thought i should ask a reverend.

Do you think that Amarica was built primarily by Christians creating a foundation based on Christian principles? Why or why not?

Is it good for America for American Christians to strive to make America a Christian nation today? Is such an endeavor possible? Why or why not?

What should be the primary source of American values? Should churches (or faith groups) be a source? Why or why not?

I am not sure whether I am for or against abortion. What do you think about the subject?

Who do you think it was that caused the terrorist attacks. Gays, blacks, abortionists etc.?

Thank you

Uncle Ed. Sez:

Dear Aaron, You are right to question the witness of Christianity in the abortion debate. Obviously much of the resistance to Christian witness on this issue is misunderstanding of "separation of Church and State". The previous quotes will give you a perspective of what America's founders thought of the issue, which you have probably not encountered in school.

For more information about America's Christian roots, see www.wallbuilders.com. Also check out Chapter 10 (www.panews.org/br.10.htm) of Johnny Brockhoeft's book "The Brockhoeft Report", where he tells of the contents of a history book he found in prison, which just happened to be the very one he learned from in school. That history book, with its majestic Christian history of America, taught in the public schools of Kentucky through the '60's, was formative in his thinking as he progressed to the point he was ready to burn down the abortion center of the inventer of the Partial Birth Abortion.

For Bible verses outlining what God thinks of abortion, which ought to concern you more than what I think of abortion, start at the top of this article and search for "Verses*". It's the first one after the list of search words.

Your question about the cause of the "911" attacks reflects statements attributed to Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell blaming sodomites. The transcript of Jerry's actual words on the subject are very close to my position, but the portrayal of his words by those interviewing are very far from either his or my position. (My analysis was in the October issue of Prayer & Action News, "The Nonsense over Jerry Falwell", which I hope to have posted soon.)

My position is that of Benjamin Franklin and Jedediah Morse, quoted above. God certainly punishes. God certainly intervenes in history. But I marvel that so many of the punishments He warns of are what we recognize as "natural consequences" of our moral foolishness. For example, AIDS, the Immune Deficiency, as a natural consequence of ramming your arm up another man's private entrance. (I mean, geez, whadaya expect? Health or something? Though I really have to ask, if you are able to call that "pleasure", then you should be able to LOVE dying of AIDS.) Yet Romans 1:27 makes it sound as if God has to miraculously intervene in order to bring His Judgment about! No, God created the universe, and His "Wrath" is often a natural consequence, like splattering on the street is the natural consequence of jumping off a building.

But back to 911. Yes, there are many ways in which that was a natural consequence of America's sin. I'm not offering a comprehensive analysis, but just a couple of examples: American's tolerated Bill Clinton's public fornication so easily they actually elected him president. Well, obviously, if one likes to sin in one area, he may in another. One of the other ways was to lie about the environmental impact of oil drilling and nuclear waste disposal, the natural consequence of which was to make America extremely vulnerable to Arab oil suppliers' whims. It also makes Arab extemists very wealthy, enough to finance elaborate plots and develop biological weapons like Anthrax. The apathy of Americans to Clinton's sin further allowed Clinton to vastly reduce our military readiness, emboldening our enemies to act. Americans were served plenty of notice that Clinton orchestrated international catastrophes to block news of his affairs, and yet this didn't seem serious enough to Americans to call for his conviction after his impeachment. Well, some of these catastrophes he impacted for his own Public Relations were the earlier terrorist attacks. Terrorists observed not only that Clinton was not going to stop them, but that Americans didn't care what Clinton did.

Did God specially intervene to bring this judgment upon America? Well, actually, God did intervene miraculously to reduce the tragedy. See the same article that analyzes Falwell's statements.

But don't think of 911 as an example of God's wrath. That was nothing, compared with what God has done to nations in wrath.

Charles Carroll of Carrollton, Signer of the Declaration of Independence: "Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime & pure, [and] which denounces against the wicked eternal misery, and [which] insured to the good eternal happiness, are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments." (Source: Bernard C. Steiner, The Life and Correspondence of James McHenry (Cleveland: The Burrows Brothers, 1907), p. 475. In a letter from Charles Carroll to James McHenry of November 4, 1800.)

"Thou Shalt Not Kill*" "Let God Judge* and stop Evil Without Our Help" "Your Strategy* shames God" "What Hate* you show, Violence always being hateful no matter for what purpose"

Subject: Clay Waagner

Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001

From: "Scott Harman" <jesusisking8@hotmail.com>

To: PraiseJesus@ArmyofGod.com

Clay Waagner is a terrorist. Period.

Anyone who seeks to do violence and inspire fear in the name of God pervert's His Will and sullies His Name. The perpetrators of this terrible crime in Septermber were causing death and inspiring fear in God's Name, as well. Can we not agree that this was wrong? Can we not agree that the people who took control of those planes are burning in the fires of Hell? Truly -- what is different between their actions and Clay Waagner's threats?

As far as I can see, Clay has repeatedly (and admittedly) broken one of God's most sacred commandments - by stealing cars, trucks and handguns. He covets his neighbor's property. He has gleefully and self-righteously threatened to break another one. Honestly, where is the ambiguity in "Thou Shalt Not Kill?"

Fighting fire with fire just burns more things up. Leave the fire to Satan.

Judgement and vengeance are best left to him. Anyone he judges unworthy of heaven will not go there. Period. I understand where your anger comes from - that these doctors are also breaking one of God's most sacred laws. However, God can enforce is own laws. To suggest that the Almighty needs us imperfect humans to do His Will is to underestimate Him, and to show a disturbing lack of faith in His perfect plan for all of us.

I hope He will turn your heart away from evil, hatred and fear. They do not add to His Glory.

In His Name, Scott Harman

Fighting Fire with Fire (Sword*)

Uncle Ed. Sez: Are there any Americans who remember the origin of the phrase "fighting fire with fire"? When there is a great forest fire, way too large to put out with mere water, firefighters set fires a short distance from the advancing flames. The wind blows the newly started fires towards the advancing inferno, because the inferno is sucking up air towards itself. When the strategy succeeds, it is because the inferno cannot proceed, the newly started fires having burned up the next quarter mile or whatever of things to burn.

This being the origin of "fighting fire with fire", what uneducated soul came up with the idea that "you CAN'T fight fire with fire"? When the fact is, that from the inception of the phrase to the present, you literally can. And throughout the Bible, there isn't much of any physical action which is absolutely off limits to combat evil. I'm waiting for absolute pacifists to explain why Jesus told the apostles they needed swords.

I'm trying to think of any activity which has absolutely no appropriate purpose. Peter and God, working together, punished two liars with death, Acts 5. When Jesus returns, it will be with a sword in His mouth to slay the nations, Revelation 19:15. You had better not tell the truth to a diplomat from another nation come to scout out what you have worth stealing, 2 Kings 20. You had better lie to the Chinese abortionists come to look for more victims, Exodus 1:15-21, Hebrews 11:23, 12:1. What Biblical rule has absolutely no exceptions? Ecclesiastes 3:1-8. Which of my critics obeys commandments so absolutely that there are no exceptions to the point of absurdity? Which of our critics condemns police for shooting murderers? Or troops for shooting terrorists? Which of our critics preaches that spies should tell the truth, and burglar alarms should be easy for thieves to find lest we be guilty of deceiving them?

How about just a little common sense here? Enough of these homespun sayings that never contributed any intelligence to the discussion. Sure, as a general rule, one does not stop crime by becoming a criminal. But let's not make our statements so absolute as to render them useless. Let's remember another homespun generality: "there are exceptions to every rule", and let Scripture be our guide in identifying and acknowledging godly exceptions with precision, common sense, and an end of hypocrisy.

Let's end this "Old Saying War" and get on to a real, serious discussion.

"Do Not Judge*" "Thou Shalt Not Kill*" "Adopt* don't Kill" "Birth Control is the right Strategy*" "Satan is better than you

Subject: Please tell me...

Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001

From: "D T" <cruciatio@hotmail.com

To: Glory2Jesus@ArmyofGod.com

Who appointed you to be "god", rewrite the bible and the ten commandments as you see fit and justify killing with murder and acts of destruction? How many people do you think Jesus killed - he didn't even kill the Romans who nailed him to a tree.

Do you support the "priests" and "reverends" of the world who rape little children? Do you support people bearing children and leaving them in dumpsters to die? Or maybe you support having babies dying because their mothers can't afford to feed them. But wait - like the rest of you overzealous idiots, you probably don't support birth control - so who do you think caused this problem? Maybe the brainwashed morons who actually believe this self-contradicting voodoo you preach?

The world will surely rejoice when you're rotting in hell and Satan, being more righteous than yourself (and quite probably having a family tree that actually branched), is washing his feet in your blood.

Get a clue or get off my planet.

Birth Control

Uncle Ed. Sez: "Birth control" is abortion, too, killing a child after conception by not letting it attach to the walls of the womb. Although it strikes earlier than surgical abortion, it murders just as surely; if God judges it more leniently for some, it will only be because of the principle of Luke 12:47-48.

Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001

From: "Marguerite B. Klotz" <mklotz@hotmail.com>

To: glory2jesus@armyofgod.com

YOU MAKE ME SICK!

Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001

From: "Mark Ustan" <markt643@hotmail.com>

To: PraiseJesus@ArmyofGod.com

Waagner says god has spoken to him. Why didn't god tell him to take a shower ?

He is yet another hillbilly who's suckered by organizations like yours.

You are terrorists and i hope you prosecuted.

You know nothing about religion.

Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001

From: marshall <mars2@pacbell.net

To: Glory2Jesus@ArmyofGod.com

You people are sick and twisted , and very much in the minority , you do know that don't you?"Army of God " ...what ignorant dangerous militant fools you must be . What do you know about "God" . What you readin the Bible ? The book that is full of genocide and murderand rape ? You are in Virginia isn't that right ? Marvelous state that produces Tobacco that kills more people every year thanheroin and all the other illegal & legal drugs in the worldand by automobiles ....and by abortion all together.What hypocrites and ignorant dangerous people you must be....and completely blind to truth.

Uncle Ed. Sez: Don has a swell setting where he can automatically send emails to his "delete" file that contain profanity. He has to enter each cuss word that should activate the delete. But a few have gotten through. Cursing doesn't necessarily merit a "no response" in my book, but I deleted them because they contained no other lucid points worth reading or responding to. This email is an example, though without a cuss word.

Actually this is more interesting than the others. Compounding Don's villainy, this writer explains, is his residence in a tobacco-growing state. If only we knew the home state of the writer so we could think of some insult for him! And of course Don is suspect for relying on the Bible which is "so full of genocide and murder and rape". As if his own television viewing has less of it, or a holier purpose for it!

"Stop Killing and Adopt*"

Subject: Do something for the ones that weren't aborted!!!

Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001

From: "David O'Sullivan" <david.osullivan@worldnet.att.net>

To: <Glory2Jesus@ArmyofGod.com>

This is fine for you to have a site condemning abortions. What about the kids that were damaged by their birthmoms drinking and drugging while they were pregnant? Until your group wants to take these kids in and try to parent them you should not condemn others. These kids are condemned to a less than rewarding life. We have done foster care for over 20 years and most of these kids are taken into custody because of abuse. Some are severely affected by the prenatal abuse. Many never find a family that will try to raise these difficult kids and many grow up in the system and then move on to prison. A great many of the women go on to have more babes that are prenatally exposed to drugs and alcohol. We are raising one of these kids. He will never be able to fully be on his own and has gone through his own personal hell all his life. I strongly feel that sometimes it is a blessing to not put these kids through this kind of life. There are not enough people out there to raise these kids and maybe your group would like to advocate for them and find families for them. For every women you condemn for making her choice to end that cycle, take one of the hundreds that live!!. It will make your life a hell!!!. Adoptive mom

Uncle Ed. Sez: I share your concern. A practical problem for us who have been through courts to try to stop abortion is that state departments of human service are fanatically pro-abortion and anti-Christian, typically pulling such stunts as ordering spouses to divorce so that at least one parent may retain custody, or even ordering a spouse to not attend his home church because the child is there against whom a "no contact" order has been entered (in the usual hearing ruled by the "preponderance of evidence" standard where hearsay is quite welcome). In other words, people like us, with prolife records, who also by the way understand the vanity of psychology, are denied access to the very group of state-controlled children about whom you express concern. Were there not such state-created barriers, I cannot imagine not finding a home for every homeless child!

So I am working on those barriers. I am running for State Representative again, and my proposals for the Iowa DHS are elsewhere on my website. I would be interested in your impressions of them.

I just really can't imagine you asking your children "Would you rather your mother had you killed before you were born?" And if you do ask them that, do you really think they will concur with your theory that they would have been better off?

It is human nature to wish life were less challenging. It is not human nature, except during high stress moments which are the exception rather than the rule, to wish to have never lived. But if you are suffering such moments, seek help in Jesus. Paul suffered plenty, yet was able to say, Philippians 4:11 Not that I speak in respect of want: for I have learned, in whatsoever state I am, therewith to be content. 12 I know both how to be abased, and I know how to abound: every where and in all things I am instructed both to be full and to be hungry, both to abound and to suffer need. 13 I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me. However, if I am wrong; if you really can ask your children that question, and if they really do tell you they wish they had been tortured to death before they were born, I would love to have a videotape of that interview to put on my TV show. (With the usual signed permission slips from parent and child.)

Subject: Any relation to...

Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2001 09:37:29 -0700

From: "DW_RE_S" <smartasp@msn.com

To: <glory2jesus@armyofgod.com

I was looking at your web page today and I have a question: Are you any relation to Osama bin Laden?The reason for the question is that it seems as if both of you have taken the Bible/Qur'an (Koran) and translated it to fit your bizarre ideas.

I know you think you are doing the right thing, just as Adolph Hitler did; instead of using the Bible, he wrote his own book, Mein Kampf. Several years ago, due to a bad case of ennui, I read the translation. After separating reality from theory, I came to the conclusion that in theory, it isn't a bad idea. In reality, it is a very, very stupid idea based on ignorance. I agree somewhat with your ideas on abortion.

Because you claim to be a religious man and believe in God and like to quote scripture, do you remember the parable where Jesus has forgiven an adulteress and all of the "religious" leaders are in an uproar and wanted to stone her? Then Jesus said, (John 8) "Whoso is without sin of you, let him first cast a stone at her."* Are you sure you should be "casting stones"?

The Roe v. Wade ruling was dumb and stupid. There should not be a law covering abortion. The decision to have an abortion should be up to that person and their God. The decision should not be based on terror tactics!

I'm sure you think you are condemning the abortionists to hell. I hope you like each and every one of the dead abortionists that died because of your teaching/preaching because, in my opinion, the irony of your actions is that you will be spending eternity with them. The decision where you spend eternity, of course, is up to God, his Son and you (another "trinity").

Sincerely Yours,

Dale W. Schunke

Don't Judge* the Woman Caught in Adultery

If you think Jesus decriminalized adultery, just because he did not "condemn" the woman brought to Him who had been caught, tell me how you interpret this:

Matthew 5:27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: 28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart. 29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell. 30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell. 31 It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement: 32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.

My understanding of Jesus' actions was written as part of my review of "A Time to Kill", by Rev. Mike Bray a few years ago. Here is an update:

THE WOMAN CAUGHT IN ADULTERY (p. 25) John 8:1-11. By interceding for the woman and securing her escape from the death penalty, was Jesus tossing out Moses' law and giving us a new way of mercy that has no room for capital punishment?

No! He told them to go ahead and stone her! Of course, he put a condition on it: "He that is without sin" should start.

But is that a condition Jesus added to Moses' law? Bray points out that Exodus 23:1 warns,

"Do not join the wicked in putting your hand, as an unjust witness, against anyone."

The KJV says "unrighteous witness". Strong's says the word indicates violence, or acting for one's own gain.

Countless Sunday School lessons speculate that when Jesus wrote in the sand, He was writing the secret sins of those standing around, that they thought no one knew about. But Jesus may just as well have been writing the full texts of the verses they said gave them the authority to stone the woman. Because the verses the Pharisees alluded to, Lev 20:10-11 and Deut 22:22-23, said to kill both the man and woman! And the Pharisees had caught her in the act; meaning, I hope, that the man was there too; so where was he? Which of the witnesses could stand there and say they were righteous witnesses, "without sin", when they were on the verge of killing only the woman and excusing the man, in violation of Moses' law? Jesus was obeying Moses' law, as should we, in not joining himself to those unrighteous witnesses!

Jesus' action is a precedent followed by courts today which throw out a conviction if the evidence has been gathered illegally. Jesus did not, any more than any court today, mean to suddenly decriminalize serious crimes, just because some of them are prosecuted illegally.

When we today read the Exodus warning, "Do not join the wicked in putting your hand, as an unjust witness, against anyone", it seems to us to be talking about perjury; or in other words, "false witness." The violence suggested by the Hebrew world seems to us surely some sort of metaphor, since we know of nothing about witnessing in court that is physically violent.

We have to remember that our law does not permit the witnesses of a crime to be the jurors, but Moses' law requires the witnesses to a crime to be not only among the jurors, but then to be the executioners! Deuteronomy 17:7. So the application of this passage today is not only to bearing false witness during the trial, but also to participation in the arrest. The arrest must be "by the book", then as now. (Except that then, the "book" was the Word of God.)

Jesus did not express a principle not implied in Moses' law, but he expressed it in a way that made, a little more clear, a third application: it is hypocritical and unjust for jurors to hold an accused person to a higher standard than the jurors themselves are able to meet! If the jurors are guilty of adultery themselves, they are not qualified to execute another for adultery.

Reading between the lines, and thinking how men talk today, we perceive the way the Pharisees of Jesus' time could rationalize stoning someone else for what they themselves had done, was by being morally outraged only when the crime was committed by a woman. Jesus' framing of the principle didn't leave room for that distinction. They may have initially been dumbfounded, thinking, "Well of course we've done it too, but we're men! Men are supposed to sow their wild oats! That's how you prove you're a man! What kind of a weenie goes through life knowing nothing more than his wife reveals? But what does that have to do with this case? This is a woman you're looking at, Jesus! This is one of those 'bad girls'. A woman who behaves like a man is indecent! So let's get on with it."

But no, they looked at Jesus writing out the law in the sand, forgetting to include their exceptions. Suddenly they started remembering chores at home they needed to get done.

These principles explain why, today, it would be insane to begin throwing aborting mothers in jail, or executing them, while our whole culture still promotes abortion. Not that mothers today are innocent! Not that they are not worthy of death! Not that God has not brought or will not bring, judgment upon America for it! But we could not, today, fill a jury with people free of this sin. (Well I mean we could, if we search all year like they do in high profile trials.)

This is not merely a legal technicality. It reflects the principle of Luke 12:47-48, that "ignorance of the law is an excuse." Well, not entirely; Jesus says the criminal is still punished, but not as severely, when no one had warned him it was a crime.

Most people do not really think independently about things like abortion. They follow the wind. I haven't figured out how much of it is intellectual incapacity, and how much "the cares of the world", or apathy. But the fact is if a 15-year-old girl gets pregnant, and "the whole world", including her own preacher and parents, are urging her to get an abortion, with only a few "crackpots" whom all authority figures ridicule, saying otherwise, it would take really unusual perception for her to be certain that abortion really is a crime.

My point is that the inability of society to fill juries with citizens innocent of this sin, and the ignorance of mothers of the magnitude of the crime of abortion, are related, and fairly proportionate.

They day will come when revival sweeps the cobwebs of moral apathy from the Mass Mind of America. Then, when abortion is rare, yet a young woman still seeks it, it will not be because she could not overcome the wall of evil voices luring her down, but it will be because she stubbornly, powerfully resisted the wall of righteous hands extended to pull her up.

To say it more simply, punishment should be light, of a mother who didn't know any better; but heavy, when she rebelled against not only God but the whole weight of the morals of society.

I say all of this to address, as decisively as I know how, the many emailers who have said we should blame mothers more than abortionists! Can you see that the "excuse" of "ignorance" applies so much more to mothers than to abortionists? It is abortionists, who, with their incredible "war chests", their massive political contributions siphoned from federal funding of "family planning", that have made so many Americans ignorant. It is abortionists whom Americans must oppose in order to bring America to revival.

There may be exceptions, which a future Nuremburg-type court may note; but abortionists, generally speaking, know better.

After revival, and a cleansing of our culture, when abortion is once again rare and revolting, then the few who commit it will be only those whose hearts are truly hardened against God and man. Then it can be properly criminalized by men.

Michael Bray concludes, "Moreover the mission of Christ as the suffering servant did not at that time include His future role as judge (cf. Lk 12:13.14: Jn. 12:47). It was not His mission to adjudicate the matter. But He did call upon those whose duty it was to administer true justice. Jesus did not reject capital punishment, and institute some kind of new justice system. He confirmed the law as did St. Paul (Rom 3:31; Matt 5:17)."

Of course, we all remember Jesus' words of mercy for the ignorant, which apply to all Americans today: not, "Neither do I condemn thee: go, and have fun." But "Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more."

God is patient. But not forever.

Acts 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: 31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2001

From: "Stephanie Morrison" <mollysmom@earthlink.net>

To: <PraiseJesus@ArmyofGod.com>

hide behind that collar you worm..i will hunt you down and choke you with it

Subject: what a waste of bandwith

Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2001

From: "Deborah Ann Smith" <dsfromnj@en.com>

To: PraiseJesus@armyofgod.com

"Thou shalt not Kill*" "Show the girl corpses, too!"

Subject: Question

Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2001 16:18:21 EST

From: (Name withheld by request)

To: PraiseJesus@armyofgod.com

Why are all of the murdered babies that you people put on this web-site boys? Are you so closed minded that you can't even put girls on there? And for that matter, how can you justify killing people when that is exactly what your trying to prevent? How can you kill someone and then have the audacity to tell someone else not to kill? I am not trying to condem you, I truely do not understand. Now, depending on your answer, I may condem you, but that all depends on you, doesn't it??

in anger and confusion,

knchoralier

Uncle Ed. Sez: Boys? All of them? Many of them don't even have intact bodies. Oh, I get it. You're joking. I think.

From: (Name withheld by request)

To: uncle-ed@ia-omni.com

Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001

Subject: Re: Response to your post to armyofgod.com

You still have not answered my question. In the letter I recieved, you quoted one of the ten commandments. "Thou shalt not kill". Yes, I agree with that. But you say people that kill are heros. Not the mothers, but the people who kill abortion doctors. You say that I should not kill, unless it is an abortion doctor? Am I right?? I really wish that you would take some time out of your "busy" day to explain this to me. Please do not send me another "generic" letter.

In anger and more confusion,

(Name withheld by request

Uncle Ed. Sez:

Perhaps you were too busy to read my generic letter, which explains that the title "Thou shalt not Kill*", at the top of your post, is my category name so that people searching the subject of your letter will find your letter. That phrase is not my answer to you. My general answer on that subject is found by reading the file at www.panews.org/AOG/Letters.htm and searching "Kill*".

I can't discern a specific question in your letter, other than that. I have written several pages of responses, and even if I had the time to write them out again for each new writer who asks the same question, I would never be able to remember all the points I made before that ought to be made again. Please look them over, and then if a more specific question occurs to you, send it. Keep in mind as you ask for a response, that I am answering on behalf of the mutual interests of Don and myself; so if there is a particular thing he has said to which you would like a response, please quote it and give the source. For that matter, it helps me even when it is my own statements you question.

In Jesus' Name

Dave Leach

Response:

Please do not post my name or e-mail address on anything that you post on your website. If you wish to further contact me to ask permission to post something that I wrote, you may. But until then, please refrain from doing so.

thank you for your cooperation and understanding.

Adamantly, (Name withheld by request)

"Thou Shalt Not Kill*"

Subject: I support you!

Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2001

From: "Casey Smith" <anarchy47@whoever.com>

To: Glory2Jesus@armyofgod.com

No, i just kid. You are horrible people. killing is wrong, EVEN

if its doctors. You make me sad. But i love you anyway.

Uncle Ed. Sez: You have found a clever way to get past the defenses of people who don't like criticism, lying, er, "kidding", in the subject line.

Subject: Qu.

Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2001

From: Jason Cramer <jlcramer@pacbell.net>

To: glory2jesus@armyofgod.com

Are you vegetarians?

Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2001

From: "Dev-Null" <parahost@qwest.net>

To: <Glory2Jesus@ArmyofGod.com>

To Army of God,

Hello, after looking at your Web site and seeing all the effort that you have put into it I have an idea to throw your way.

It seems to me that your Web site is not so much for anti-abortionist but more so for abortionist you hope to persuade to your viewpoints. After careful thought on how to make your Web site more effective I have come to conclusion that your Web site should include the following.

*Based on the assumption that your Web site is for showing people why abortion is wrong.

1. Your Web site should have a nice design to show that you and your ideas are organized and well thought out. In this design your Web site would be organized and categorized into sections so that your visitors are directed and enticed to continue reading your ideas and assilimating information.

2. Your Web site should include interactive elements. For instance, a message board. Interactive elements would make it so your visitors are apart of something. Also, it would help convince abortionist of their wrong thinking. It would have this effect because members could post their viewpoints for all to see and if they lose sight of your cause others can give them the confidence they need to continue to fight for it.

3. All the quotes you have out of the bible should be removed. The quotes will instead be replaced by people's discussion in the message board (and other interactive elements). The reason why it is best to remove your religious quotes is because not all people are religious, or do not share your religion. For instance if person x enters your site and is athiest but is in the middle of wether of abortion is right or wrong they may read your quotes and your approach of presenting information and decide not to associate themselves with someone who preaches what they do not beleive in. Therefore, align themselves with abortionist.

If this is unclear to you then just remember that you do not have to beleive in god, or in your god to be an abortionist. Just because you do not worship does not mean you promot killing. Your Web site currently acts like repellent to all who do not beleive in your supremem being but yet still are deciding on the issue of abortion.

4. Often times you will find people do not beleive in what you do because they have unanswered questions. What you need to do on your Web site is answer the questions that abortionist do not understand. You may say 'How

can killing a baby be just?' but yet they understand it as 'How can disrupting a bunch of cells be wrong... Isn't that what we do when we wear a condomn?' Of course they say it is not wrong. That is why you need arguments that are not biblical... not all people can base decisions on foundationlessideas.

Again the message board and other interactive elements would allow people to discuss this idea and throw in arguments that are relevent to them. Your side of quoting a holy book will persuade the religious fanatics, while someone elses side of using logic, science and compassion will persuade the non-religious abortionist that it is wrong.

If you like this idea of a community for your Web site to make it more interactive and also make your visitors more responsive them let me know, and maybe we can work out a deal. Naturally as soon as it is created you can do with it what you want.

Regards, Marcus

Uncle Ed. Sez:

RE #2, I would LOVE to have a chat room, or message board, or anything that would make my site interactive. Of course I am not speaking for Don at this point. I have wanted it for years. But not a lot of money is generated by proclaiming that abortion is so serious that stopping it is justified, so I can't exactly hire a web guru to build it for me, and it takes me time to master new programs.

RE #3: Leave the Bible out of the abortion debate, and no one has any basis for a strong position or firm conviction. All are left with mere opinions. Obviously this well suits those who don't like strong opinions or firm convictions. But I really think if we went to all the work you suggest to dress up our sites, and then take all the strong convictions out of it, I can't imagine a visit to our new Sunday-Come-To-Meetin' sites would hold anyone's interest.

RE #4: I'm with you 100% on having a means of addressing questions, which is the goal of this article. But no question can be answered about an issue which would not exist but for the Bible, if you censor the Bible!

Next paragraph: Oh, I see; you don't mean to censor the Bible, but to place it on a "Message Board" on an equal footing with the messages of others. Well, I have an idea you might like just as well: I would like to post the articles of others, critical of me, along with my own. I guess the situation is that I understand posting articles, but I don't understand how to build message boards.

Next paragraph: You're a computer wiz, making an offer? OK, I'm letting you know. What's your deal?

(There has been more correspondence, of a technical nature probably not of interest to readers here.)

"You can't change a heart you have shot; bad Strategy*" "What it takes to go to Heaven"

marshall <mars2@pacbell.net>

The Army of God as far as I am concerned are just a bunch of insane fanatics, OK? Thank you!

Dave,

Thanks for replying to my email. After reading through all of your responses, I can see that you have an established answer for every question that has obviously had lots of research and practice put into it to make sure your story is straight.

You told me in your reply that you too were in the business of "changing hearts". I thought that was funny, since you're not changing anything so much as you are killing hearts. What's to change once those hearts are dead? You asked me an interesting question though...what are my ideas on how to change hearts as we witness the atrocious crime of abortion being carried out in this present day. I'll get to that in a second.

First, I know that abortion is wrong...and I do not support it. In other replies you mentioned the fact that God, who is LOVE, also had people killed especially in the Old Testament. Sure. Sexual immorality, lying, not honoring your parents, murder, idolatry...all those are serious sins. How serious? God had people killed for committing them. Why aren't we doing the same still? I know I didn't quite honor my parents, and I have lied in my life...etc. Why haven't I been stoned? Have we forgotten that those sins are still as serious as they ever were? They are as serious as abortion...and I would say that everyone committs one of these sins every day...and outnumber abortions by an astronomical number. Now, before you decide to have me killed for these sins...realize that God, by grace, sent His Son, Jesus Christ, to pay the penalty for those sins...including abortion. So do we allow them? Not at all! How do we stop them? How do we stop people from committing these atrocious sins? Lying, murder, theft, sexual immorality, abortion? Answer: Change hearts. The heart of the problem is the problem of the heart. But how? Before we get to that...I

have one question for you...

In your personal opinion, what do you, Dave, understand it takes for a person to go to heaven?

Love,

JS

Uncle Ed. Sez:

Although there is a humorous irony in your framing of my desire to change hearts after I have already shot them, a reading of my answers, confirmed by news stories about me, confirms I am not a suspect for any crime. I write. I don't shoot. Same for Don Spitz. I am not physically blessed with the talent for shooting hearts, so changing them is about the only hope I have remaining.

You are surely already aware that your framing of all sins as of equal magnitude strikes average people as senseless. There is a popular theology floating around that equates all sins, as you suggest. This may be based on a misunderstanding of James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. 11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law. 12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty. 13 For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment. I don't believe verse 10 is saying anything different than we would say today, when we say "Look, if you steal, then you can't come into court and said you didn't kill, so that should cancel out your stealing! You are a 'criminal', even if that is the only crime of which you are convicted."

I'm not fluent in Greek, but from what I can determine my interpretation is supported by the Greek grammar.

Degrees of sin are acknowledged in Matthew 5:22, where three levels of punishment await three levels of contempt for others. God talks as if abortion (today's technological counterpart to Molech Worship, where mothers threw their children into the red hot brass arms, heated by blazing fires, of their god "Molech") is the greatest crime of all the history of the universe: literally so horrible that not even God could have ever imagined it!

Jeremiah 19:3 And say, Hear ye the word of the LORD, O kings of Judah, and inhabitants of Jerusalem; Thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel; Behold, I will bring evil upon this place, the which whosoever heareth, his ears shall tingle. 4 Because they have forsaken me, and have estranged this place, and have burned incense in it unto other gods, whom neither they nor their fathers have known, nor the kings of Judah, and have filled this place with the blood of innocents; 5 They have built also the high places of Baal, to burn their sons with fire for burnt offerings unto Baal, which I commanded not, nor spake it, neither came it into my mind: 6 Therefore, behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that this place shall no more be called Tophet, nor The valley of the son of Hinnom, but The valley of slaughter.

Although God instructed Moses to write laws for governments to prosecute, and humans are barely competent to judge actions let alone thoughts, God Himself takes into account thoughts, 1 Corinthians 4:5, and punishes more, or less, accordingly, Luke 12:47-48. The principle in this last Scripture especially judges abortion, because the wickedness of abortion is clearer to many Americans than any other crime. (I have to qualify that by acknowledging many Americans don't regard anything as a crime. So if you run across someone who can't perceive that abortion is a crime in God's eyes, I would like to know how seriously they take, for example, armed robbery.) One of the points of choosing a life of righteousness is the central choice of where you want to spend eternity: surrounded by God's Love, or away from that "smothering" boring being that only wants to deny you what you want! That's why, I believe, one sin that you know you are committing will send you to Hell more than ten sins you are not sure about. To deliberately sin is to choose Hell. Very many choices like that, and I'm afraid God will throw up His Hands and let you go there.

What does it take to go to Heaven, you ask?

Romans 10: ...the word of faith, which we preach; 9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

That's the standard formula in most Christian churches, and it's pretty comprehensive, for being so short. Except it doesn't mean a one-time "confession" in front of friends that "I believe in Jesus, so now I said the formula, got my ticket to Heaven". No, it means that everything that comes out of your mouth is "homogenous", the Greek word for "confession", with Jesus. That includes when the Communist torturer orders you to renounce Jesus. Or when the liberal news reporter grills you about your position which you would never have had, but for finding it in the Bible.

Do you believe in your heart, not your mind, that God raised Jesus from the dead? That is a unique conviction to all the world's religions. To really believe that is to affect your actions, your whole life. It is to take Jesus seriously as One with the power, the authority, and the love since it was for you He died, to provide you everything in life that means anything. It is to take Jesus seriously, in a way you do not take any mere human philosopher seriously who was not raised from the Dead!

I would say whoever this describes, is "saved".

Of course, it's not really my personal opinion.

Subject: about your organization....

Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2001 02:49:32 +0000

From: "amanda smith" <purple782@hotmail.com>

To: Glory2Jesus@ArmyofGod.com

Dear Rev.Donald Spitz,

I am a student who is writing an academic paper about the Army of God and was wondering if you could answer a few questions for me. I need clarification and would like to learn more about your organization. It would be a great help and I would really appreciate it!

What denomination of Christianity is your group affiliated with?

What is your mission and why? When did you discover that this was your mission? Why is it your mission and not someone else's?

I wanted to know what excerpt from the bible reads that it is acceptable to murder in defense of your belifs (i.e. abortion doctors), because to many it

seems hypocritical because the bible says "thou shalt not kill". and we are all of Gods creatures. When we die it's God who takes us from the earth, so why does your organization feel that it's alright to take someone's else's life. Do you have spiritual justification?

Why is an adult human being's life less valuable than a fertilized egg?

Is your interpretation of the bible taken literally or just certain aspects?

Has your group ever tried political influence instead of extreme measures?

Petitioning? Why do you feel that it's alright to use violence?.

Thank you very much for all your help. If you could get back to me as soon as possible that would be apprectiated.

Sincerely, Amanda Smith

Uncle Ed. Sez:

Inner Secrets of the Organization of the Army of God

Dear Amanda, regarding denomination of "our organization": first of all, you should understand there is no organization, not in the ordinary sense of the word, meaning a humanly organized group. The "Army of God" is a Biblical term meaning "Christians". (Shhh. Don't tell the news reporters that you know this little secret. They are having so much fun thinking they've constructed a vast, underground, secret organization in your imagination, replete with generals and tanks and purple helicoptors.)

One reason I assume folks like Eric Rudolph signed their notes "Army of God" is to remind Christians of the military jargon which they themselves use when they sing such standards as "Onward Christian Soldiers".

So I guess you would have to say the Army of God is quite interdenominational.

Now if we define "Army of God" not in the Biblical Sense but in the newspaper sense, meaning militant Christians who plot and scheme how to kill abortionists and sodomites, then you would have to conclude the Army of God doesn't exist. There is no organization which coordinates such activities, I am convinced. If there were, there would be a lot fewer abortionists.

But if we include people who share my belief that abortion is so serious, it justifies physically preventing it, and who speak publicly to that effect or who have actually taken such action; in other words, those whom news reporters have decided must be "soldiers" in the "Army of God", then I have to tell you this group, in my experience, is more interdenominational than most Christians.

I don't mean "interdenominational" in the sense that they attend churches with no identifiable doctrines; indeed, they range from passionate Catholics to charismatics to Episcopaleans to House Churchers. By "interdenominational", I mean they worship freely together across denominational lines.

There is something about serving time in jail together, for an issue important to us only because it is defined in the Bible, that increases our respect for one another. Before jail, and less intense modes of service, we, like most Christians today, look at each other and wonder how lenient God will be, whether he will let into Heaven this other professing Christian even though he goes to a church so radically different than our own.

But when we look at each other behind jail bars, we think "this guy must really love Jesus as much as I do, to be willing to lay down his freedom, not to mention suffering brutal arrest, for the sake of Jesus' 'little people'! Hard to believe, considering the apostate paganism he calls 'church', but here he is right in front of me! Even though everything he believes is wrong, how can God not honor his sacrifice? His 'cross'?"

"What is our mission?" You ask. Perhaps the knowledge that there is no cohesive group with a single mission answers this for you. Write again if your question is more narrow than that.

For verses that motivate us, search the linked article with "Verses*".

Toleration of Abortion is Terrorism.

God, who appoints the time of our death, also charges us with the responsibility to stop terror. God certainly knows how to take care of terrorists all by Himself! But when He has to do it by Himself, then there are none He spares from His "cleansing", such as in Noah's Flood, where God regarded everybody except Noah and family as terrorists, basically.

Do you understand why? If you are so apathetic about terror -- whether it is abortion, or a judge who makes up his own laws, or a President who murders people who know too much and who makes lying "in" -- that you do nothing to stop it, then you are actually supporting terror. You are tolerating it. Terror exists with your permission. In that case, do you see how foolish it is to urge that God be left alone to deal with terrorism alone? When God acts, those foolish people will have included themselves on God's list!

Relative Value of Babies and Abortionists

"Why is an adult human being's life less valuable than a fertilized egg?" Intriguing question. There are three ways to answer it, which all give the same result:

(1) Quality. Innocence. Unborn babies have far less time to develop the habit of rebelling against God than adults do. They have done nothing worthy of execution, and even if they had, Americans supposedly stand for giving everybody a fair trial before you execute them. Babies get no trial; they are executed even though they have never even been accused!

(2) Sheer quantity. One "fertilized egg", as you call a human baby, verses one abortionist, is not the comparison that lies before us, but the roughly 20,000 babies a single abortionist will murder during his career. But that figure is pretty low when you count the babies killed by birth control! Birth control aborts as surely as surgical abortion, killing the embryo by not allowing it to attach to the walls of the uterus. I have no idea how to calculate such bloodshed, but you can see how a million souls may be prevented from drawing a single breath, courtesy of the ruthlessness of a single abortionist!

(3) Guilt. Murderers forfeit their right to life. Abortionists need no jury to determine their guilt; they proclaim it in expensive ads!

And yet none of these evaluations has anything to do with the reason abortionists have been shot. The motive is not vengeance, or punishment, but prevention. If you could imagine a retarded person who managed to get himself in a situation where he was, unknowingly, about to release poisons or explosives that would destroy an entire city, and if the only way to stop him was to shoot him, surely he would be shot. Not without a deep sense of loss and tragedy! Not because he was regarded as less valuable than others in the city! In the same way some have shot abortionists, to prevent them killing, soul by soul, the population of a city. Not without a sense of loss and tragedy! Perhaps God was still working with them! Perhaps, incredibly, they just didn't understand! But they couldn't be allowed to just continue killing!

Now that I have answered your question, answer mine: can you think of any criteria by which an abortionist has more value than an unborn baby, that you would like mankind judged by?

How about intellectual development? Are intellectuals more valuable than average folks? Are parents more valuable than children? Am I more valuable than you because I have already graduated?

If you think babies are less valuable than adults, then ask yourself: why do you think there are long waiting lines to adopt every manner of child, the younger the more sought after, but no one wants to adopt an adult?

Jesus certainly didn't think babies or children were worthless! Jesus certainly had a heart open to the joy of the most innocent! He said

Matthew 19:13 Then were there brought unto him little children, that he should put his hands on them, and pray: and the disciples rebuked them. 14 But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven.

Politics

You ask "Has your group ever tried political influence instead of extreme measures? Petitioning?"

I have been a candidate for State Representative; this year will be my 5th run, and this time I'll win. (All candidates have to say they will win.) Regina Dinwiddie, whose FACE brief is on my website, ran a pretty tight race for City Council in a suburb of Kansas City. I can't imagine there is anyone who has risked jail to save lives, who hasn't first exhausted him or herself through traditional political steps, from writing to politicians to getting involved in campaigns. Going to jail just isn't the first thing most Christians think of doing! It is what you do when the blood of the innocents continues crying out and nothing you have tried seems to be working; hearts are too hard to care.

How about you? Do babies mean anything to you? Has your heart become hard enough that you could look at a child planted by God in your own womb some day, and say "Oh, that's just a Fertilized Egg. I scramble eggs for breakfast"? Will you join the real terrorists, the ones who terrorize babies at the rate of 1.5 million murders a year? Or will you help lead your generation to the realization that "This can't go on! Freedom cannot survive when government sponsors genocide!"

Feminist, woman's choice, women suffer more than babies, overpopulation, enslaved mothers, quality not quantity of life

Subject: ...

Date: Sun, 02 Dec 2001

From: Oliver Joslin <insidios@pacbell.net>

Organization: Pacific Bell Internet Services

To: Glory2Jesus@ArmyofGod.com

Abortion in the Twenty First Century

There are two sides to the abortion argument; Pro-choice or Pro-life.

Pro-choice means that you believe that an impregnated woman has the right to choose whether or not her child will be born. Pro-life means that you do not believe a woman has the right to choose. You believe for personal, moral or religious reasons that the killing of a fetus should not occur and is essentially wrong.

Though abortion has been legal in the United States since the Supreme Court ruling on the case of "Roe vs. Wade in 1973, which banned all anti-abortion laws in all 50 states, abortion still has a strong opposition.

Abortion is not pleasant. When you unnaturally remove a fetus, which was once a parasite feeding within you, it ceases to exist. You destroy something, which was partially alive inside of you.

It could have been a child, it could have been President, in short it could have been a great human being. You and only you have to live with that fact for the rest of your life. So, is abortion wrong?

It is not wrong for a woman who feels financially unstable. It is not wrong for victims of rape or incest. It is not wrong to be able to make a choice about your body, which will affect you for the rest of your life.

It is however most certainly wrong to deny the female race of a choice. When we can see so clearly that women are equals to their male counterparts, it is wrong to abase their place in society, to control their actions and basic human rights is wrong.

[Ed: OK, from this point I will intersperse my response with this letter. Right now we go to my response to the letter to this point; then this letter resumes, a paragraph at a time, interspersed with my response.)

Uncle Ed. Sez:

This is a creative way to dehumanize babies: to call them "parasites feeding within you". That being the case, of course, they have no right to live! Kill the little bloodsuckers!

But the analogy is not accurate. Parasites are uninvited. Babies are invited. The correct analogy is advertising in the newspaper for homeless souls to come live in your house for Christmas, and then once they come, you betray them and murder them! You have told the advertiser (in this analogy; your lover, in real life) that you are so full of love that you want to share it! So you share, indeed. Until your love bears fruit: then love no longer seems a virtue to you, but rather selfishness!

You say abortion "is not wrong for a woman who feels financially unstable." Since when do hard times justify murdering a homeless guest? God will understand if you say "I'm sorry, I can't afford to support you. But others have asked for the honor. Let me take you to them, and you will be safe." But no, you won't do that because if you see him in the sunlight you might love him and want to keep him? So to avoid that terrible risk, you just kill him? How do you expect God to understand that?

You say abortion "is not wrong for victims of rape or incest." Since when does the fact that the homeless kitten has come to your door, uninvited, give you the right to kill it? If you don't want it, take it to the animal shelter so another may live it! Why are you so intent on murder? What fanaticism impels you to insist it is "not wrong"?

You say "It is not wrong to be able to make a choice about your body, which will affect you for the rest of your life." Well first let's trim the overstatements, so we can work with what we have left. "Which will affect you for the rest of your life." Well, technically, a wart will affect you the rest of your life, by leaving a tiny scar in your fingerprint. But childbirth, followed by adoption, will significantly impact your schedule for about a month or two that you have to take off work. So to save that month or two, you will kill? Presumably right up till the 9th month? And say "it is not wrong"? Because this is an acceptable "choice"? Why can't you be happy unless your baby is dead?

You're giving women less freedom than men.

When we say abortion is not an acceptable choice, we aren't advocating that women have fewer choices than men. We oppose men killing babies, more than we oppose women killing them. Haven't you noticed that we talk way more about the crimes of abortionists, than about the crimes of mothers? And that most abortionists are men?

(The letter resumes, identified by quotes; my response is not in quotes.)

"Abortion arguments on either side are not purely moral debates; abortion issues now involve factors such as overpopulation."

Well, abortionists and New Agers are trying. But did you know if you go to the Encyclopedia and get the square miles of Oregon, and figure how many 50'x130' house lots will fit in that many square miles, (don't worry, you can use a calculator; remember, 5,280 feet in a mile) that every man, woman, and child in the whole world will fit in that state, with each person receiving one house lot? The people who told you the world has problems because it is overcrowded are obviously lying to you. All the world's miseries are accounted for by the Culture of Death, led by abortion, messing up the world's politics. Each additional soul brings to the earth a net gain of opportunity.

"It should not be any surprise to those of you who live in cities such as Los Angeles that raising a child is much more difficult than it was twenty years ago."

You must be young, to imagine such a thing! If you want to see "more difficult", visit a museum, and get a feel for living without running water, electricity, or even an iron pot to hang over an open fire, not to mention TV. How can this generation in America, the most blessed of all human history, complain that it has it hard? What ingratitude to God!

What makes life hard in Los Angeles today has nothing to do with population, and everything to do with sin. But sin has existed in every age. Even today, America has far from the most barbaric culture of human history.

"A strong household where both parents are present is proven to be better for a child's mental development than a single parent household. Why should a single woman feel forced to have a child when it will only disrupt the attainment of her goals in life?"

What, so murdering her child is supposed to give the mother a better chance to raise children later? What, by convincing a future husband what deep love she has? By preparing her heart to love babies later? By reassuring her future children how deep her commitment is to caring for the helpless, to sacrificing her own selfish interests on the altar of her love for her children?

Since when is having a child an impediment to finding a husband? Maybe once in America, but that was when adultery was rare enough that there were still plenty of chaste men and women.

I would think that if a woman really wanted to increase her opportunity to catch Mr. Right, that an even better way to attract him, than killing her child, would be to stop fooling around with Mr. Wrong. Duh.

"By allowing women this choice, we as the United States of America, stand up to other more sexist countries who are unwilling to give freedom to their women. It is a basic right, which all women should have. It is a woman's choice regardless of how you analyze it. To deny a woman control over her own body is to deny a woman basic freedoms."

Calling the "right to kill" a "basic freedom" is to actively attack all our freedoms. You cannot give one person a right to kill, without taking away another person's right to live. Without a right to live, no other right matters.

Those Terrible Pictures*

"Some Pro-life anti-abortionists flash pictures in public of first trimester aborted fetuses to disgust and repulse the public. This creates sympathy for the aborted fetus and puts the woman, who is suffering the most, in the background. Obviously they are in an inconvenient situation."

Do those terrible pictures, indeed, disgust and repulse the public? If so, then what should that tell you? Perhaps, maybe, that murdering unborn babies is disgusting and repulsive?

And what could it possibly be about those pictures that is disgusting and repulsive? We pass by meat counters every week and see dismembered carcasses all over the place, and no one complains. What is different? If an unborn baby is just a mass of tissue, what distinguishes its dismembered carcase from the dismembered carcase of a chicken

Could it perhaps be that the difference is that the baby is a human being, tortured to death at its most innocent, most helpless stage of life? Could that be it?

But then we have to ask: If that's it, why, then, do most people who are disgusted and repulsed by these human corpses, blame the prolifers who show them, and not the abortionists who produced them? Kind of illogical. Unless -- could it be they are furious with their conscience for stirring them to shame for not standing against the powerful government support of this carnage?

"If you were a woman, raped and thereby impregnated, would you want to give birth to a constant reminder of the most horrible act of violence in your life by a random person who seriously scarred you for life? Probably not."

If you abort your child, then rape will no longer be the most horrible act of violence in your life! What, are you determined that if there is going to be violence in your life, you should get to commit it? Sins committed against you have nothing like the impact on your heart and mind as sins committed by you! What vengeance, what bitterness, what self righteousness, can cause you to see the crime of another only, unsoftened by the memory of your own crimes?

Seriously scarred for life? Scars are the building blocks of life! They make you stronger, wiser, more careful, more appreciative of your blessings. The tree growing in a safe warm building grows weak. Pampered children have difficulty functioning.

Scars are the gift Jesus shows us to open our hearts. How must we treat your "least", Lord, if we could KILL God's Son?"

But a baby born of rape is no scar! It is not a reminder of violence! It is a reminder of God's glorious ability to take the worst tragedy we could possibly imagine, and turn it into the most wonderful blessing we could ever hope for!

"No matter what your take is on the situation, there are going to be women who need abortion services for one reason or another. Those services must always be safe, legal and trustworthy otherwise we are demeaning women everywhere."

Legal, yes, abortion is legal. But safe? Even though women slain by abortionists is heavily suppressed in the media and courts, paragraph-long case histories fill the thick book, "Lime 5", by Mark Crutcher of Life Dynamics. Trustworthy? A section of the book is for women raped and molested by abortionists, during their abortions!

"Supposing women were refused the rights of abortion services, would that stop a large percent of abortions? It is a fact that women all over the world, even in countries where it is illegal, are still having abortions. If abortion is illegal the practice merely becomes more dangerous and costly. Abortion merely protects those who wish to have the procedure completed safely and sanitarily. In the United States 25% of pregnancies are terminated but that number has been declining since 1979. In other countries such as Romania 78% of all pregnancies are terminated. Those statistics came from a corporation called "Baptists for Life, Inc." If there were no such thing as abortion services we would be living in an even more pathetic world of unloved and neglected children."

Ah, so you think there is more love by parents, for their children, now, than before 1973? You must be young! You must not have lived then! But who do you listen to, who feeds you such stories?

"Imagine if there were over 4.5 million more children in the United States alone, who were unwanted, unloved and neglected. That's is the approximate number according to certain statistics on the Internet."

Uh, you mean in a 3 year period? The figure is 1.5 million per year; although since many states still do not require statistical reporting of baby murders, we have to trust the Guttmacher Institute, a branch of Planned Parenthood! But at that rate, for 28 years, I guess that comes out to about 42 million slain in America alone!

"It is a sad truth but those children would simply not have had the same choices in life someone who was brought up in a strong household."

This unsupported speculation certainly flies in the face of common sense.

The assumption is that if you make murdering your own children an acceptable choice for parents, that will create a generation of parents whose hearts are full of love for the children who escape?!

"Women should have the right to choose just as anti-abortionists should have the right to speak their minds. Often times, though, picketers and activists go too far. For example there have been; 7 murders, 17 attempted murders, 41 bombings, 165 arsons, 82 additional failed bombing and arson attempts, 370 physical invasions of personal and business properties, 942 acts of vandalism, 100 butyric acid attacks, 557 anthrax threats, 122 assaults, 343 death threats, and 3 kidnappings. These actions do not prevent the death of human beings instead they only incite them."

Huh? Closing abortion centers does not prevent the death of human beings? What am I missing here? Oh, I forgot. Babies are not human beings until they grow up and learn how to kill. "...they only incite them"? Generally speaking, this letter is an eloquent statement, a brilliant expression of its flawed premises. But this phrase, I can't decipher.

"In my conclusion I want to remind you all that we all want to do what we think is right in life. I say to those anti-abortionists who are reading, realize that these people feel forced to take this measure and have no cruel intentions about it. Our goal in life should be to improve the quality of human life not the quantity of it. Your god does not wish for a world of starving children and an enslaved female race."

Many letters fail to inspire me to specifically respond, because (1) they contain no new thought, but are restatements of points I have addressed earlier; or (2) they don't seem to welcome response; or (3) they seem too poorly written to persuade anybody, so they don't seem worth the bother. But this letter is eloquent. Although its premises obviously do not win my concurrence, the writing style itself is passionate, moving, and comparable with fine literature. I even feel as if responding to it has brought out, in my own writing, a power above my ordinary writing.

Let me summarize, then, the premises that are at issue:

(1) Whether or not an unborn child is a living human being, or a "blob of tissue." If the latter, then obviously I and my friends are absolutely crazy to attach so much importance to their preservation. If the former, then killing it is murder, which no amount of personal inconvenience, real or imagined, can justify.

(2) Whether or not God's opinions about the human-ness of unborn children are discernible, and relevant to moral and political discussion.

If they're not human beings, and if God's ideas don't matter, then everything in this letter makes perfect sense.

Wants general answers, a forum

Original Message --------

Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2001

From: "DAVID TACKETT" <Rac_Tac@msn.com>

To: <Glory2Jesus@ArmyofGod.com>

I have for along time hated you. I want to know your views to be better able to understand were you are coming from. I would like any options. I would also like to know were chat rooms are so that I can better understand your views. I would also like to know if you would support religious programs in a public school and why.

Thanks you .

Uncle Ed. Sez:

For our views in general, see the article to which is here provided a link.

Concerning support for religious programs in a public school, I think a view more interesting than mine is that of America's Founding Fathers, which they expressed about the time they were drafting and ratifying the First Amendment. So that you don't read their quotes and think they contradicted themselves, I should explain by the "establishment of religion", which the first Amendment prohibits, is meant things like laws forcing citizens to attend a particular denomination, and to tithe to it, and supplementing the tithes with taxes. Several states had such "established" denominations at the time the Constitution was adopted; the First Amendment did not end that, but only said the Federal government couldn't "establish" denominations, because that would compete with the states. Now for a couple of quotes:

Noah Webster, Founding Educator

"The most perfect maxims and examples for regulating your social conduct and domestic economy, as well as the best rules of morality and religion, are to be found in the Bible. . . . The moral principles and precepts found in the scriptures ought to form the basis of all our civil constitutions and laws. These principles and precepts have truth, immutable truth, for their foundation. . . . All the evils which men suffer from vice, crime, ambition, injustice, oppression, slavery and war, proceed from their despising or neglecting the precepts contained in the Bible. . . . For instruction then in social, religious and civil duties resort to the scriptures for the best precepts."

(Source: Noah Webster, History of the United States, "Advice to the Young" (New Haven: Durrie & Peck, 1832), pp. 338-340, par. 51, 53, 56.)

You've already heard of Webster. Maybe you haven't heard of Benjamin Rush. Rush was a famous doctor, a signer of the Declaration of Independence, served in the administrations of Presidents John Adams, Thomas Jefferson, and James Madison, helped found five colleges, was America's first professor of chemistry, write America's first textbooks in chemistry and psychiatry (before Freud), and was the first Founder to propose free public schools under the Constitution. One of his educational policy papers was titled "A Defense of the Use of the Bible as a Schoolbook". He begins, "Before I state my arguments in favor of teaching children to read by means of the Bible, I shall assume the five following propositions: I. That Christianity is the only true and perfect religion, and that in proportion as mankind adopt its principles and obeys its precepts, they will be wise and happy; II. That a better knowledge of this religion is to be acquired by reading the Bible than in any other way; III. That the Bible contains more knowledge necessary to man in his present state than anyother book in the world; IV. That knowledge is most durable and religious instruction must useful when imparted in early life; and V. That the Bible, when not read in schools, is seldom read in any subsequent period of life."

Gouverneur Morris was the guy at the Constitutional Convention who, besides speaking 173 times on the floor of the convention, was the guy whose handwriting we see on copies of the Constitution. It was he who took the ideas brought up in debate and wrote them out for further scrutiny. He said, simply, "Religion is the only solid basis of good morals; therefore, education should teach the precepts of religion, and the duties of man towards God."

When French immigrant Stephen Girard, an admirer of the French anti-Christian "Enlightenment", died, he left $7 million for a school provided no minister be allowed on campus! It went to court. Daniel Webster was the attorney arguing against such a requirement. The court ruled that since the school would require government assistance, it therefore must teach religion, the Bible, and Christian principles. The ruling said:

"Why may not the Bible, and especially the New Testament....be read and taught as a Divine revelation in the [school]-its general precepts expounded...and its glorious principles of morality inculcated? ...Where can the purest principles of morality be learned so clearly or so perfectly as from the New Testament?" Gidal v. Girard's Executors; 43 U.S. 126, 200 (1844)

[For you pro-choicers who haven't had to defend yourselves in court and learn how to look up law books, this means you go to a law library, like in your county courthouse or state capitol or at a law college, look up a wall-size collection of books called "U.S. Reports", look up volume 43, and the case will start on page 126, and this quote is found on page 200. The case was decided in 1844.]

During the same several months the First Amendment was being debated, the Northwest Ordinance was passed, which required that all Territories must teach Christianity. About the same time, Congress appropriated taxpayer's money to publish Bibles!

Subject: Baby killing abortionists

Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2001 15:50:45 -0800

From: "James Merritt" <tryn2bcop@msn.com>

To: <Glory2Jesus@ArmyofGod.com>

Let me say that I wish that everybody that feels the same way that you do were aborted also. Your website and Idealism on this subject is the most grotesque, ignorant and demeaning thing I've ever encountered. Has anybody in your occult every read the Bible or studied it's history. Has anyone in your pathetic dwindling organization ever studied the history of Christianity. I agree that after a certain period in a pregnancy an abortion must not be considered but what your arguing is just plain ridiculous to the point of being laughable or sad. I hate to express this to you and open your warped little mind up but your kind is a dying breed along with your white trailer trash KKK and your nazis incest back woods hillbilly ass friends and family. I relish the day when your kind will be a forgotten species. Oh, and by the way, I'm going to be a cop and probably go on to politics and I'm going to dedicate my life to bring your pathetic organization to a halt and expose it for everything that it is, a lying ignorant Satan worshiping occult. Have a nice day!!!!!!!

Murdering a murder. Devil not real. Don't need to be a Christian to know murder is wrong.

Subject: Gift

Date: Sun, 02 Dec 2001

From: "Jean Wilker" <howdoyoudefyknowledge@hotmail.com>

To: Glory2Jesus@ArmyofGod.com

Your site suggests killing to abortions doctors. Isn't that evil. I am disgusted with the hipocracy of murdering a murder. The death won't stop that way. There will people to rise against you. You are terrorist who supress the freedoms of people well beyond the law. You are a mockery to your own country, you are a pimple on the face of the USA you are duragatory to lady Liberty. You are Satan. Oh and how come you assume everything that is wrong with this world is the work/temptations of the devil? Can't it be that someone could commit a evil deed without the interferance of his truely-Satan. What if Satan isn't even real? What if God created him in the bible as a metaphor or to materialize evil so that humans could relate to it easier. Nothing has a bold edge when it comes to the bible there will always be exceptions. Except to the sin of killing. That goes for any side. Sir by propagating and supporting deaths of the doctors you have condemed yourself to damnation by your own God.

The next letter is from the same writer:

Verses*, Other Strategy*, Oh, did Jesus say not to change laws?

Subject: Giving your soul to God.

Date: Sun, 02 Dec 2001

From: "Jean Wilker" <howdoyoudefyknowledge@hotmail.com>

To: Glory2Jesus@ArmyofGod.com

"Give your soul to God and pick up your gun,

Its time to deal in lead.

We are the legions of the damned,

The Army of the already dead."

-Roberty Jay Matthews

How do you know what you are doing is right? If you say God said so, then I ask: "Where does it say so? Where does it say that you can justify a murder by killing someone? There are ways of defeating "babykillers" without commiting the unforgivable act of murder. You can fight it in court. You can rally support and change the laws. Jesus also said to keep the laws that have been already set by society. Therefore you should not support those who kill anyone, even baby killers. Have you ever considered the fact that you may be wrong about all this, that your religion has brain washed you into thinking they way you do. If you deny the possiblility than you are more ignorant than I thought.

Uncle Ed. Sez:

I am well aware that I could be more wrong than I suspect. However, God expects us to proceed on what knowledge we have, not waiting until we are as wise as God before we are willing to rescue our neighbor. It is by serving alongside Him in this way that we acquire knowledge.

Jesus violated the following laws, according to the interpretations of the Sanhedrin, that day's Supreme Court: hygiene laws, Mark 7; Sabbath laws, Mark 2:23-3:5, Blasphemy laws, Mark 14:64. The Sanhedrin's ruling, that healing on the Sabbath violates the Sabbath Rest, is no more absurd than today's Supreme Court saying the right to kill a baby is protected by the Constitution.

Sister web site

Subject: Web Site

Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2001

From: "Mario Derksen" <mario@cathinsight.com>

To: <PraiseJesus@ArmyofGod.com>

Thank you for your excellent web page!

I would like to let you know that my own web site offers ample of academic

ammunition to refute pro-abortion claims and rhetoric, especially in my "Pro-Life Answer Library." Perhaps you wish to take a look: http://www.cathinsight.com/morality/

Also, a very good collection of philosophical pro-Life essays is at http://www.vanderbilt.edu/SFL/ethics.htm

God bless you. Mario Derksen, www.cathinsight.com, CATHOLIC INSIGHT

"Blame* Mothers, not Abortionists!"

Subject: "babykilling"

Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2001

From: "Joseph Unrein" <HerMUcules@si.rr.com>

To: <Glory2Jesus@ArmyofGod.com>

Abortion is definitely wrong, the horrors unborn babies go through are terriblethe thing is why do u tunnel your hate at aboritionists and their staff and not the people who abort their children?the mother who aborts their child does not have the least sense what happens to her baby as they slaughter itThe army of god is right in many ways, but killing abortionists is wrong.

Reassurance needed

Subject: HI

Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2001 12:23:42 -0500

From: "Tammy Kavanagh" <MercDaBrat@rogers.com>

To: <PraiseJesus@ArmyofGod.com>

HI, I SEEN YOU ON TV A COUPLE OF NIGHTS AGO, AND DESIDED TO CHECK OUT YOUR SITE, THE PICTURES ARE QUITE SAD/DISTURBING TO SAY THE LEAST. BUT I HAVE TO ASK, WHAT IS YOUR SUGGESTION TO SOMEONE WHO WAS RAPED? DO YOU THINK THEY SHOULD KEEP THE CHILD OF THAT TERRIBLE ATTACK? IM INTERESTED IN WHAT YOU HAVE YOU HAVE TO ADVISE SOMEONE WHO HAS BEEN IN THAT SITUATION ......... THANXMERC

Uncle Ed. Sez:

Please search the linked article using the search word "Rape*", and write again with any more questions!

Other issues

Subject: Interesting website...

Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2001 09:05:56 -0800

From: "Cynthia Wolf CW14" <cynthiawolf@yahoo.com>

To: <PraiseJesus@ArmyofGod.com>

Do you all have any other agenda besides stopping abortion? Although, I would never resort to violence, I agree with the term 'babykillers'. In what other ways are you seeking to fight the good fight so to speak? ~Cea cynthiawolf@yahoo.com

Uncle Ed. Sez:

Don Spitz is pretty focused on abortion, as being the issue he speaks publicly about. He cares about a great many other issues. My own website, www.panews.org, has information on several issues; as I get time I will post the best of our Prayer And Action News print magazine, published since 1989, which covers far more details on many more issues.

Dead doctors bad as dead babies, "Thou Shalt Not Kill*", Strategy* for turning people from God

Subject: hello

Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2001 09:26:02 EST

From: LiquidForce011@aol.com

To: Glory2Jesus@armyofgod.com

I'm all for pro-life but isn't killing abortion doctors just as bad as kill the babies and God says Thou shalt not kill. But isn't that contradicting the Bible. It does not detour me from God but it may others. That's all I wanted to bring to your attention. thank you for reading

Sean in Florida

Furious at being ignored

Subject: A very important message from Caine

Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2001 01:01:09 EST

From: CainBlaze@aol.com

To: PraiseJesus@armyofgod.com

You guys do not take me serious when I try to talk to you guys about your murdering! Maybe I should FORCE you to take me serious, by killing as many of you as I can before I sacrafice myself for the Lord. I will drain all your blood out with several razor blades, and make Priest Without Church the first "Campaign." I will then take a .45 Desert Eagle to the next hell-bound P.O.S. that gets in my way! I will cleanse the earth with your blood, wash my hands with your entrails, destroy your life, kill your families! Like the saying goes, "Women and Children first!" take me seriously! A very angry, Caine Army of Kindred "With Your Life I Claim Your Soul"

Uncle Ed. Sez:

Patience! If you were indeed writing to "guys" plural, you might reasonably expect a prompt answer. But you were writing to just one, single, lonely retired preacher who doesn't make a lot of money from talking about abortion as so serious as to merit physically preventing it. No, not a lot of money in that to hire a staff to answer threatening emails.

I volunteered to help answer when he told me he was getting hundreds more emails than he could possibly answer, as a result of the nutball 20/20 coverage that informed us he was the "General" of the Army of God. So this is the first of your emails I have encountered, and of course there is nothing here indicating what you want to "talk" about, unless it is only to make threats which, were we to duly report them, might at least prompt police to take you seriously.

Now if you would like to try again to talk about something, write me, and I will do my best to respond on behalf of the mutual interests of Don and myself. But you may need a little patience. I operate a music store in Des Moines, which I have to take a little time out from answering you to operate.

In Jesus' Name (Col 3:17)

Dave Leach

We abortionists are benefitting from your Strategy*, which makes me sick; support birth control; Sodomy prevents abortion; verses*

Subject: find another way

Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2001

From: joan wheeler <prochildprochoice@yahoo.com>

To: Glory2Jesus@ArmyofGod.com

I am pro-choice, I am pro-life. You people are ignorant and blind. I'm sure you all are against sexuality education and emergency contraception and homosexuality. I bet you didn't know that many women become pregnant and then pass the "baby" with their menstrual period...and that emergency contraception works in a similar way by PREVENTING pregnancy, it DOES NOT terminate a pregnancy. Can homosexuals procreate? NO! I am dumbfounded that you ignorant bigots don't support sex education, birth control (including emergency contraception) and homosexuality--supporting these issues would help prevent the need for abortion. why don't you redirect your energy? You have NO idea how many women get abortions, target them, not us. Support sex education to help prevent unwanted pregnancy. It is becoming so prevalent and so normalized that any terrorist efforts you people make will only make the American people support the pro-choice movement even more, and with a vengeance! You will only give us more power if you support terrorism. Show me where in the Bible it state "an eye for and eye". Stop antagonizing and start acting like smart individuals with a cause because the nation certainly does not view you that way right now.

Nasty pictures good

Subject: (no subject)

Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2001 22:15:43 EST

From: WyldeChyld26@aol.com

To: PraiseJesus@armyofgod.com

hello. i just wanted to say thank you. i have just learned of your website from the tv show 20/20. i am and always was PROLIFE. i have read how abortions are preformed and when i read about it a while back it made me sick to my stomach. i had clicked on one of your links not realizing what i had clicked on. my eye sight is very bad and i had misread the link. well anyway i had clicked on baby malachi, and i could not stop crying. i have 4 children and my youngest is 4 and a half months old. how anyone could do such an act to their child is sickening. what made me sick is when i found out i was pregnant for my baby i was 25 weeks pregnant, and i was informed that abortions that late could not be done here, but in nyc they would perform one. whether a woman is 1 week or 40 weeks pregnant. that "cell" has a beating heart, and that "cell" is a baby. i feel no remorse for the woman that i read on here that cr

God Inspired Abortion! Blame* Men! Suppressed women

Subject: You are hypocrites!!

Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2001

From: "Barbara Carr" <bcarr@mail.mchr.state.md.us>

Organization: MAryland Commission on Human Relations

To: <Glory2Jesus@ArmyofGod.com>

How can you call yourselves Christians and say you are on gods side. When you are in fact the murders and terrorists. Did you ever consider that god gave doctors the knowledge to give women abortions because it could be his will in certain cases for a women to have an abortion? You go blaming the doctors for having to provide abortions to women that have been raped, molested by family members and are mentally incompetent to have a children. Instead blame the men who get these women pregnant in the first place. You and the so called church have victimized women since the beginning of time starting Adam and eve. Eve has been blamed for giving Adam the apple. Why not blame Adam for eating it in the first place eve didn't place a gun to his head and say eat. Women have been paying for Adams weakness ever since. All he had to do is say no but its easier for the men to blame women when it is their own faults. As long as men cant control themselves and get innocent women pregnant against their wills, their will be a need for abortions. For once make who is at fault accountable the men. Groups like yours make me sick when you call yourselves Christians and say you are doing gods work. Your group does not know what the word Christian means. Christian means Christ like. Instead of preaching terror and murder preach Christ's message not judging and forgiveness. And for once in the history of the world make the Men accountable who get these women pregant then abortions would not be needed in the first place.

Uncle Ed. Sez:

I wonder if you actually believe the fact that a man thinks of an idea, proves that it is of God? If so, have you not considered that God gave Don and I the knowledge to defend force to stop abortion because it could be His will in certain cases to destroy abortion centers? But actually God himself clarifies the likelihood that everything men think of is of Him. Genesis 6:5 And God saw the wickedness of was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

The evidence that God did not give doctors the idea to abort comes from Jeremiah 19:5, where God says Molech worship, that culture's technological equivalent of our abortion, was so shocking to God, that God could never have imagined it!

I see that you are a woman who has been hurt by anti-woman theology, so please let me clarify a few points of verses that may have troubled you. Actually the Bible acknowledges that Adam was more to blame than Eve, because Adam knew better. 1 Timothy 2:14, Luke 12:47-48.

But don't worry about people paying ever since for their mistakes. We have enough of our own mistakes to pay for, Deut 24:16.

But the curse Adam introduced to the world is lifted for every soul to the extent he or she obeys God as Adam did not, Luke 12, where we are promised that if we will seek first the Kingdom of Heaven, we needn't work for our food and clothing as Adam was required, but God will provide it.

Your point is well taken about the lower accountability for male fornicators than for the pregnant female fornicators. Of course our government has done a pretty thorough job, brutal in some cases, of collecting child support from such men. But it's not the same, and it should be. One of the reasons Jesus excused the woman caught in adultery, John 8:1-11, is that they had arrested only the woman, and not also the man as Moses' law required.

Of course at the present time our society is determined to hold neither man nor woman accountable for promiscuity. Adultery laws were repealed across America by the 1960's. I am glad to talk with someone else who would like to see them restored. You will have to help me prepare America's hearts for their restoration, however. The main reason Jesus excused the woman is that it is hypocritical for a jury to find someone guilty of crimes the jurors themselves have committed. Adultery can't effectively or Biblically be outlawed before it becomes rare enough to fill juries with people free of it.

Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2001

From: "r.t.wild" <robertwilda1@hotmail.com

To: <PraiseJesus@ArmyofGod.com CC: <robertwilda1@hotmail.com

you have a very good site .keep up the good work. all i got to say a i 4 a i . from birmingham(uk) pro-life group.

Hi, Robert!

Your response is unusual! It is positive!

So that you may see how much that is appreciated, I'm including the link to other letters we've received. I'm offering you the same thing I do the rest: that when I post your note on the web, at your request I will delete your name and/or email address.

The advantage of anonymity is that federal investigators and abortionists are a little less likely to get you on their lists.

The advantage of a public stand is that it moves society a little closer to the point where the great majority of Americans, who do not think deeply for themselves but respond to shifts in the wind generated by those who do, will sense the wind shift and clamber on board our side.

Political leaders, too, are far more frightened by adverse stands when they are public, "on the record", with names and addresses attached. They understand that if a person cares enough about a position to risk public scrutiny, he likely cares enough to support their opponents. The more controversial the issue, the more critical is this principle.

(This applies, with a bit of qualification, to anonymous literature distributed by Christians in countries where Christian witness is outlawed; everybody who finds the literature understands what great risks its authors took. So it is the degree of risk taken for a stand, not per se whether it is signed, that impresses fence sitters.)

In Jesus' Name (Colossians 3:17)

Dave Leach

Secretary-General, Army of God

"You have inspired me to become an abortionist"

Subject: You are my inspiration

Date: Sat, 08 Dec 2001

From: "M S" <tiptoe83@hotmail.com>

To: Glory2Jesus@ArmyofGod.com

I have always wanted to dedicate my life to helping others. Over the last few years I have struggled to find a "path" that would lead me to help the most people to the best of my ability. Well, your movement and your website have been a tremendous help to me.

I used to want to be an attorney and follow in the steps of Sarah Weddington. That beautiful soul who fought for the rights of women just like me. However, seeing the hate in your hearts so deep that would incite you to murder makes me want to face you head on. I now know that I am most needed as a ob/gyn. These hands that type you this note are the hands of the future. These hands will perform countless abortions. These hands will protect the reproductive freedom of the women of America and other countries in the world.

You cannot kill us all. I am not afraid. There are more brave souls just like me who believe in the constitution, freedom and democracy and are willing to fight for it. You are the weak and passive who know you cannot win without cheating.

If you want to prevent abortion, go out into your community and teach children about safe sex, make contraceptives available, and foster self-esteem, education and creativity.

You cannot win by murder. Every doctor you murder accomplishes nothing except for tarnishing your own souls. There will always be another to replace him or her. Also, with the passage of RU486, there is no way you can ever win. Just two pills and a pregnancy is terminated. It is a wonderful time in our history for life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness...

Thank you for your existence...without you I may have taken my rights for granted. Never again... an inspired young woman!

Uncle Ed. Sez:

He was the best. His wisdom was so great, you could say it shone. And you can't really say he ever lost his wisdom.

But something happened one day. If you could really call it a "day". He stared Love in the face, as pure as any he had ever imagined, but this time he didn't feel like melting with gratitude. This time he wasn't even in the mood to acknowledge it. This time he felt, what was it? "Jealousy", he decided to call it. Yes, that's it! I like that feeling better! Much better!

So he turned to the others and said, "This 'love', you call it? It is really hatred pretending to be love. Never trust it! Your heart will only break!"

The others believed, and he began, one by one, heart by heart, to destroy.

He started small. A single rock in a field. He developed weapons. Soon he directed great wars with millions of slain.

But that wasn't enough. He designed a great statue of himself made of brass. He lit a great fire under the statue's outstretched arms, and taught mothers and fathers to throw their living children into the red-hot arms.

Love pleaded with him, "O my friend, who destroys the messengers I have sent you, how often would I have gathered you up in my arms, as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, and you would not! Now look; all your hopes are dashed, your life desolate! Nor will I send messengers of Love again, until the day you say 'happy is he who has seen Love!'"

How angry this made him! He shouted at Love, "I have always wanted to dedicate my life to helping others find themselves. But now thank you, Hate, you have been a tremendous help to me! I used to want to train Hitlers and Stalins and Caesars how to kill millions. However, seeing the Hate in your heart so deep that would incite you to let Death limit my destruction, makes me want to face you head on. I now know that I am most needed to destroy souls even more innocent than the youngest children. I will destroy them before they are even born! Yes! These hands, these clenched fists shaking in your face, will protect the Right to Murder of the women of all the nations of the world, starting with the nation that most honors you!"

He began to cackle. "You cannot kill us all! I am not afraid of you! I have trained many brave souls who believe my Revised Constitution, and in Freedom of Evil, and they are willing to fight you for it! You are weak, while I am strong! You are passive, while I will fight! I play by my rules, and by my rules, you are cheating!

"Ha! While I slay the innocent, I will recruit more victims by promising to prevent slaying the innocent! I will go into schools and teach children how to have sex! I will tell their parents I am keeping them safe! I will give them contraceptives, and lie about their effectiveness, and just to be sure, water down the dosages! Then the children who do not die of disease, will bring their young to me to be slain!

"You cannot win by ending our lives! Every soul you send to Hell will only tarnish your own soul! There will always be another to replace him or her!

"I will invent pills that kill other people! What a wonderful time in history for life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness!

"And you're to blame for everything I do! Thank you for your hypocritical existence! Without you I may have taken the meaning of life for granted. Never again! I am an inspired young man!"

Dear Tiptoe,

Are you sure a young woman named "Tiptoe" is really capable of such vindictive reasoning? Or was growing up under the name "Tiptoe" the reason for your simmering rage? If that's it, believe me, in a day when sex change operations are common, mere name changes are nothing. Go for it.

Seriously, I appreciate your passion. Even Jesus said He appreciates spunk more than its absence, even when spunk is directed towards evil! (Revelation 3:15-16)

If you are young enough to be torn between careers, you must be close to the age of my own daughter. I pray that, like my daughter, you will change your mind about your career! I pray your hot words are not yet habits, but are the rashness of youth which will pass and be forgiven.

Most of all, I pray it is God Alone whom you seek to serve, and that your heart will be clear as it seeks how to serve, unblurred by your perception of the convictions of a couple of old men whom the rest of the world finds very easy to ignore. Allow God to set your agenda, not your animus towards any men, and you will live a life truly dedicated to helping others, and with an energy and passion the world needs a lot more of.

Subject: Donald, someone has sent you a voodoo message

Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001

From: (Name withheld because it's not worth repeating)

To: Glory2Jesus@ArmyofGod.com

Dear Donald,

Someone has sent you a voodoo curse through (Website name withheld because it's not worth repeating) To view your personalized curse, click the link at the bottom of this e-mail. Before you do, make sure to read the following warning:

WARNING: If you are sensitive, paranoid or superstitious in nature, viewing your voodoo curse may be upsetting to you. Curses are not suitable for viewing by people under the age of 18.

If you fall into any of these categories it would probably be best to delete this e-mail and forget about the whole thing.

Remember, revenge is always an option.

By clicking the link below, and visiting the (Website name withheld because it's not worth repeating) site you agree, and are bound by, the terms of the ************* USER AGREEMENT available at (Name withheld because it's a bunch of garbage)

You have been warned! Click the link below to view your voodoo curse!

Uncle Ed. Sez:

Thanks for the invitation, but we're kind of busy, so we'll just ask God to check it out and handle any responses that are appropriate.

It's a bit flabbergasting that there full-grown adults who actually believe there are dark spiritual powers that can compete with God! People who actually imagine themselves witches, and demon worshippers! When I was young, every child in America knew enough to realize all that Halloween stuff was just make believe. What happened to spiritual intelligence?

I know what happened: it came to be considered "irrelevant".

Feedback Box Got feedback? Send it, along with name or url of the article, and a little of the text on either side of where your comment belongs, so I know what you are responding to, and I'll post your response. I might even place it right smack dab in the article! (If you don't want your email posted, SAY SO!)